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[Music]

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[Applause]

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so first of all my name is dr. Lauren

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Siler I am a postdoctoral investigator

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at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

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I study carbon assimilation strategies

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in the deep ocean and in the subsurface

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and terrestrial and marine environments

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I'm a first generation PhD I'm bisexual

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and I'm a new mom there's my daughter

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Eleanor and her daddy Keith so we're

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very excited to be here this is my first

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conference back after giving birth and

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it's been a trip so the name of this

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panel is allies and advocates in

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astrobiology a discussion on diversity

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and inclusivity and we're gonna talk a

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little bit about what we mean by some of

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these terms what is the difference

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between an ally and an advocate what is

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the difference between diversity and

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inclusivity and Jen made a very good

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suggestion and that is that it really

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should be aspiring allies and advocates

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because all of us including myself and

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everyone on this panel is really working

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towards becoming a better Ally and a

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better advocate for underrepresented

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groups before we get started I want to

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thank Melissa curvin Brooks for all of

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her support in helping get this panel

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off the ground and also danielle's

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Calise just

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there's just been so much support from

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NASA when I first approached them about

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this idea and they were very very

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excited about having this panel so I

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couldn't have done it without their

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encouragement but another impetus for

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this panel apart from the need for

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discussing this topic is also to

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shamelessly plug an upcoming workshop

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slash conference I don't think we've

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really decided exactly how to frame it

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yet called WTF astrobiology which of

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course stands for women trans and funds

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in astrobiology so that will be coming

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up in the early 2020 winter spring it

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will be hosted at Arizona State

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University by Sarah Walker and Theresa

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Fisher and we're very very excited about

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that

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it's looking like it's going to be about

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a three-day long conference and a small

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kind of intimate we'll be talking about

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gender issues and astrobiology and we'll

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be highlighting the work of women trans

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and thumbs astrobiologists although men

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are also welcome to attend and we will

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be discussing the parameters of that

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later on but if you're at all interested

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in helping out with this workshop in any

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way or if you just have more questions

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about it this is my contact information

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and you can also hit me up on twitter at

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musk amer and there's a QR code here and

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I want to see everybody take out their

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phones take a picture of the QR code

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because that is a survey on the upcoming

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workshop asking what kind of things

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would you like to see discussed what are

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your experiences and discrimination in

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astrobiology and if you've been to a

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panel or a workshop like this before

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what did you think of it what did you

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like what did you dislike so we can get

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an idea of what the community wants and

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needs out of a workshop like this I see

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a lot of phones out good job you guys

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are good at taking direction all right

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so before we get started I want to

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introduce our panelists we'll start down

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that is dr. Kendall Lynch she is a staff

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scientist at the lunar and planetary

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Institute

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she's a Geo microbiologist and she also

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studies planetary habitability and works

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on the development of in situ

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instruments for robotic exploration to

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her right that's dr. Jen glass I had to

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look to make sure it was dr. Jennifer

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glass she is he recently done iord

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associate professor yes at the Georgia

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Institute of Technology and she is a

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microbial ecologist and a guru of

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methane cycling and all things methane

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cycling to her right dr. Shawn Don

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Miguel Goldman who is a research

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scientist at Goddard Space Flight Center

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he studies isotope fractionation and

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spectroscopy based technology is for

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exoplanet habitability to his right we

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have Theresa Fisher

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she's a doctoral candidate at Arizona

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State University and she studies

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chemical reaction networks that may

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serve as bio signatures in exoplanet

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atmospheres and finally we have dr. Joan

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smelts she is the stratosphere

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Observatory for infrared astronomy

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Associate Director for science and

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public outreach at NASA Ames and she is

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the former chair of the American

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Astronomical Society z-- Committee on

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the status of women in astrobiology so

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I'm gonna turn things over to Joan and

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she's going to open up this topic with

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some work that she has done about

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specifically sexual harassment and how

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to become a better advocate for when you

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so I guess I have to start out with a

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confession I'm not an astrobiologist I'm

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an i but I am an astronomer so it was

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the committee on the status of women in

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astronomy and it's a committee a

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standing committee of the American

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Astronomical Society so this is my first

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astrobiology conference I'm here as part

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of the NASA postdoctoral program and I

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have learned that melissa is the

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ultimate networker

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if you want to know about networking

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definitely follow in her wake because

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she was the one who heard about my talk

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on allies and advocates and and put it

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together with this one on the day when

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the NASA postdocs were actually meeting

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at lunch time to to have a town hall on

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her astrobiology so well done Melissa we

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all have some lessons to learn about

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networking from you and this is a

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segment that was of a talk that I give

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on sexual harassment but it came it was

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born from the column that I wrote for

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the NASA postdoctoral program newsletter

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and when the the editor asked if if I

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would write something as part of the

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director's corner so I actually got a

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promotion recently so it's it's not

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surprising so I'm the new director I'm

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not an associate director anymore that I

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asked if I could write about something I

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cared about and they said sure of course

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you can and and it turned out that for

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the first time I'd been thinking about

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this for a very long time and finally

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sat down and wrote out this column and

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that is what this little segment was

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born from so creating allies and

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advocates how do we do that and for for

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me as an astronomer I I was the chair of

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this Committee on the status of women in

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astronomy a number of years ago when

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there were multiple high profile stories

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about sexual harassment that made the

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news

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and you can see there's a cluster of

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them in astronomy and I was going to

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tell you it's going to begin with a

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little story once upon a time type story

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about why how I was involved and why I

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was involved in in the background in

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these cases so it it started in 2011

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when I decided to blog for the women and

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astronomy blog about my own experience

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with sexual harassment it was a decision

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that involved dredging up very painful

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memories it involved a real fear of

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retaliation and it involved

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conversations with lawyers to make sure

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that I was allowed to publish under my

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own name and not anonymously so this

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blog was posted and it had a completely

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unexpected and unintended consequence

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that women usually graduate students

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from across but not in but not

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universally from across the country

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began contacting me with their own

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stories they were reaching out for help

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they were contacting me I was a complete

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stranger I'd never met them and they

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desperately needed to be able to toxic

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talk to someone about their own

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experiences and their own stories and it

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was all this time trying to provide as

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much support as I could

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trying to contact or put them in contact

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with someone locally who could help them

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a couple years went by and I realized

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that I had talked to several women who

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had been harassed by the same harasser

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they didn't know about each other

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they didn't know that they had had been

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essentially the victim of this person

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that I came to think of as a serial

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harasser a real predator

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and I'm sitting there wondering what can

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I do how can I help these stories were

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not mine to share they were private and

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fortunately to try and understand how to

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deal with this dilemma I had help from

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members of the committee who were able

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to bounce ideas off of each other in

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what I considered to be a safe space and

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what we decided to do what I just

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finally decided to do was ask each of

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these women individually if your

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harasser had harassed someone else would

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you want to know about it

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and several of them said yes and they

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wanted they and several of them decided

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to talk to each other and as a result of

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that four of them filed title nine

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they they came to realize that none of

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them had a special relationship and I

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use air quotes with that phrase with

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their harasser

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and the only way that they knew that was

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because these other women had and it had

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it had very similar experiences so they

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they filed title nine complaints the

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university found him responsible and

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they punished him with what we all

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described as a mere slap on the wrists

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the complainants decided to go to the

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press and BuzzFeed published their story

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in October 2015 and suddenly everyone in

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astronomy was talking about the sexual

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harassment problem so I decided that

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even though I wasn't one of the

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complainants I was just behind the

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scenes that I would talk to the press on

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the record and part of the reason was

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because to take the heat

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the complainants that several of them

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wanted to remain anonymous and as far as

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I know their names have never gotten out

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and one of the things that I said that

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is that we have to find a way to shift

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the the burden a way to change the

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system to take the pressure off the

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young women in the most vulnerable

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stages of their careers to shift it to

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senior men many of whom admitted to

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knowing the open secret for years if not

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decades so the cartoon the little

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picture is worth looking at for whatever

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reason several senior men in astronomy

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told me about why they never intervened

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that they knew about what was going on

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but they never stepped up and I don't

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know if it was a confession or or what

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but multiple people said to me things

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like it was none of my business

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I didn't want to interfere I didn't know

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what to do I thought I might make it

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worse it wasn't my problem

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boys will be boys and that's a

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incomplete list and rather than be mad

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at them I was sort of mad at them but

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rather to channel that anger into

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something positive what I decided to do

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is to take them seriously that they

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really didn't know what to do and how

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could I help them become better become

276
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aware of what they should do how could

277
00:14:07,500 --> 00:14:05,380
you take these men that were standing

278
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these senior men with a with lot of

279
00:14:13,710 --> 00:14:11,080
power with a lot of privilege and turn

280
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them from bystanders to allies and

281
00:14:21,390 --> 00:14:17,380
advocates so for those who turned a

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00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:21,400
blind eye how do we make them aware of

283
00:14:27,630 --> 00:14:24,010
the damage that was being done by this

284
00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:27,640
very prestigious colleague for those who

285
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:29,290
knew what was going on

286
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but who felt powerless to get off the

287
00:14:38,010 --> 00:14:34,780
sidelines how do we provide them with

288
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:38,020
the means to make a difference how do we

289
00:14:43,410 --> 00:14:41,050
turn bystanders into allies and allies

290
00:14:46,020 --> 00:14:43,420
in fact into advocates and this is

291
00:14:49,470 --> 00:14:46,030
exactly the thing that Melissa realized

292
00:14:54,390 --> 00:14:49,480
which would be the perfect segue in into

293
00:14:56,930 --> 00:14:54,400
this into this session and bystander

294
00:14:59,490 --> 00:14:56,940
training has become a very hot topic

295
00:15:02,760 --> 00:14:59,500
we've certainly been talking about it at

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00:15:07,710 --> 00:15:02,770
the American Astronomical Society in the

297
00:15:10,500 --> 00:15:07,720
wake of the Miche movement so the the

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very the thing that I wrote was

299
00:15:15,930 --> 00:15:12,100
something that I eventually called the

300
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:15,940
advocacy axis and this is a picture of

301
00:15:25,470 --> 00:15:21,690
the of the axis so what are the

302
00:15:28,890 --> 00:15:25,480
components of this axis and these are

303
00:15:31,050 --> 00:15:28,900
the labels and in this case we're going

304
00:15:35,340 --> 00:15:31,060
to use the example of something not as

305
00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:35,350
complex as sexual harassment but as

306
00:15:43,290 --> 00:15:39,450
simple and as common as a sexist joke

307
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:43,300
told in a professional setting so the

308
00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:47,050
idea is that the protagonist tells the

309
00:15:52,110 --> 00:15:50,050
joke the participant laughs the

310
00:15:55,950 --> 00:15:52,120
bystander does nothing

311
00:16:00,270 --> 00:15:55,960
the ally pushes back and the Advocate

312
00:16:03,150 --> 00:16:00,280
changes the culture so in the example of

313
00:16:05,750 --> 00:16:03,160
the sexist joke which I'm sure that many

314
00:16:08,130 --> 00:16:05,760
of us have been in professional

315
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:08,140
situations where we have heard something

316
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:13,600
like this what do you do so my take is

317
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:17,170
that if we all took one step in the

318
00:16:22,260 --> 00:16:20,290
right direction along this advocacy axis

319
00:16:27,990 --> 00:16:22,270
we could make the world a better place

320
00:16:30,810 --> 00:16:28,000
so the protagonist that's the person who

321
00:16:33,900 --> 00:16:30,820
tells the joke don't tell the joke it's

322
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:33,910
just it's sim it's a simple thing it's

323
00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:36,610
become it's it's like step up become a

324
00:16:42,990 --> 00:16:40,930
better person it's never appropriate to

325
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:43,000
make insulting or condescending

326
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:48,130
marks about women or as a group and you

327
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:51,010
can substitute women for many many

328
00:16:57,870 --> 00:16:53,530
different phrases that are all related

329
00:17:00,630 --> 00:16:57,880
to the purpose of the session so for the

330
00:17:02,970 --> 00:17:00,640
protagonist you don't have to go all the

331
00:17:05,460 --> 00:17:02,980
way to advocate just take a step in the

332
00:17:07,980 --> 00:17:05,470
right direction do the right thing say

333
00:17:12,630 --> 00:17:07,990
I'm not going to tell that joke anymore

334
00:17:15,510 --> 00:17:12,640
or I'm not going to tell the joke so for

335
00:17:18,540 --> 00:17:15,520
the participant don't laugh

336
00:17:22,439 --> 00:17:18,550
you know if you can't help yourself walk

337
00:17:24,780 --> 00:17:22,449
away like it's really never appropriate

338
00:17:26,699 --> 00:17:24,790
a joke at someone else's expense is it

339
00:17:29,070 --> 00:17:26,709
shouldn't be funny it doesn't matter if

340
00:17:32,250 --> 00:17:29,080
it's a sexist joke or a racist joke or

341
00:17:35,820 --> 00:17:32,260
any other kind of joke it's just not

342
00:17:38,460 --> 00:17:35,830
appropriate so if you can't go all the

343
00:17:40,830 --> 00:17:38,470
way to ally or advocate at least become

344
00:17:43,590 --> 00:17:40,840
a bystander and don't do the

345
00:17:49,620 --> 00:17:43,600
inappropriate thing don't encourage the

346
00:17:51,750 --> 00:17:49,630
bad behavior so the bystanders I mean I

347
00:17:54,030 --> 00:17:51,760
you'll see in just a little bit where

348
00:17:55,830 --> 00:17:54,040
I've been a bystander and really wished

349
00:17:59,160 --> 00:17:55,840
I could have stepped out but didn't

350
00:18:03,240 --> 00:17:59,170
quite know how but the bystander is the

351
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:03,250
one standing there thinking I wish I had

352
00:18:07,740 --> 00:18:05,770
a really quirky comeback you know I just

353
00:18:09,300 --> 00:18:07,750
don't I don't know what to say I don't

354
00:18:10,020 --> 00:18:09,310
know what to do this makes me

355
00:18:12,630 --> 00:18:10,030
uncomfortable

356
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:12,640
I I cringe when this the kind of thing

357
00:18:16,590 --> 00:18:14,650
happens it's almost like you have to

358
00:18:18,630 --> 00:18:16,600
have a phrase in your back pocket that

359
00:18:20,790 --> 00:18:18,640
you can pull out in circumstances like

360
00:18:23,450 --> 00:18:20,800
this because she you don't have enough

361
00:18:26,190 --> 00:18:23,460
time to think of something clever and

362
00:18:29,910 --> 00:18:26,200
one of the phrases that works in a

363
00:18:32,460 --> 00:18:29,920
situation like this is I disagree it

364
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:32,470
changes the whole dynamic it stops

365
00:18:36,510 --> 00:18:33,970
everybody in their tracks

366
00:18:40,260 --> 00:18:36,520
they they take a moment to think about

367
00:18:43,610 --> 00:18:40,270
exactly what they're doing now when you

368
00:18:47,070 --> 00:18:43,620
step off that bystander place and move

369
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:47,080
to the the position of an ally you have

370
00:18:53,070 --> 00:18:50,170
to be prepared for feedback it could be

371
00:18:54,930 --> 00:18:53,080
negative feedback the the protagonist

372
00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:54,940
could push back against you

373
00:19:00,479 --> 00:18:57,369
you might not be part of the in-crowd if

374
00:19:03,950 --> 00:19:00,489
you're in crowd is the is the crowd that

375
00:19:09,419 --> 00:19:03,960
tells sexist jokes but on the other hand

376
00:19:11,159 --> 00:19:09,429
you could create a situation where the

377
00:19:14,940 --> 00:19:11,169
other people who didn't know what to do

378
00:19:17,369 --> 00:19:14,950
or what to say could push back and join

379
00:19:20,310 --> 00:19:17,379
with you and say yeah it's really not

380
00:19:23,219 --> 00:19:20,320
appropriate to sell to tell sexist jokes

381
00:19:25,859 --> 00:19:23,229
in a professional setting so that one

382
00:19:27,749 --> 00:19:25,869
little phrase I disagree is something

383
00:19:29,639 --> 00:19:27,759
you can pull out of your back pocket in

384
00:19:32,729 --> 00:19:29,649
a circumstances like circumstance like

385
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:32,739
this and you don't have to imagine or

386
00:19:38,129 --> 00:19:36,369
create something clever to say for every

387
00:19:41,820 --> 00:19:38,139
situation because a lot of times we

388
00:19:44,580 --> 00:19:41,830
don't have time to do that so if you're

389
00:19:48,029 --> 00:19:44,590
already an ally you could do such you

390
00:19:50,219 --> 00:19:48,039
could step up you could join a diversity

391
00:19:52,619 --> 00:19:50,229
and inclusion committee like every

392
00:19:56,310 --> 00:19:52,629
University have has them every NASA

393
00:19:59,210 --> 00:19:56,320
Center has them every organization like

394
00:20:02,249 --> 00:19:59,220
the American assist the American and the

395
00:20:05,389 --> 00:20:02,259
American Astronomical Society or the AG

396
00:20:11,519 --> 00:20:05,399
you they all have these organizations so

397
00:20:14,669 --> 00:20:11,529
invest the time to to join and become an

398
00:20:16,259 --> 00:20:14,679
ally or to become an advocate and the

399
00:20:19,619 --> 00:20:16,269
one thing that you really need to do is

400
00:20:22,229 --> 00:20:19,629
practice so it's not like we're gonna

401
00:20:25,349 --> 00:20:22,239
immediately change the world and

402
00:20:29,129 --> 00:20:25,359
eliminate very complex problems like

403
00:20:33,450 --> 00:20:29,139
sexual harassment or workplace bullying

404
00:20:34,409 --> 00:20:33,460
or assaults but let's start with

405
00:20:37,019 --> 00:20:34,419
something simple

406
00:20:39,930 --> 00:20:37,029
here's another example something that's

407
00:20:44,669 --> 00:20:39,940
not the sexist joke you could consider

408
00:20:46,409 --> 00:20:44,679
it a microaggression so a session chair

409
00:20:48,299 --> 00:20:46,419
at a professional meeting so here we are

410
00:20:50,070 --> 00:20:48,309
we're at a professional meeting many of

411
00:20:52,769 --> 00:20:50,080
you have been session chairs or will be

412
00:20:56,909 --> 00:20:52,779
set in chairs than the next week calls

413
00:21:01,430 --> 00:20:56,919
for the last question - hands go up one

414
00:21:05,849 --> 00:21:01,440
a senior male trying to be polite says

415
00:21:08,750 --> 00:21:05,859
ladies first and defers to the other

416
00:21:17,540 --> 00:21:15,510
what do you do so ah this happened to me

417
00:21:20,900 --> 00:21:17,550
about a year ago I was in the audience

418
00:21:25,140 --> 00:21:20,910
this is a case where I was a bystander I

419
00:21:27,390 --> 00:21:25,150
cringed when he said this I didn't know

420
00:21:30,780 --> 00:21:27,400
what to do I didn't know what to say I'm

421
00:21:34,250 --> 00:21:30,790
elated thinking what should I have done

422
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:34,260
which should I have said as a bystander

423
00:21:39,420 --> 00:21:36,850
so you can think about what would you do

424
00:21:41,490 --> 00:21:39,430
if your the session chair and the senior

425
00:21:43,230 --> 00:21:41,500
male immediately took your

426
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:43,240
responsibility of calling for the

427
00:21:50,850 --> 00:21:47,410
question what could you do as the woman

428
00:21:54,060 --> 00:21:50,860
who was deferred to what could you do as

429
00:21:58,230 --> 00:21:54,070
a member of the audience like I was who

430
00:22:01,950 --> 00:21:58,240
and who cringed at this and and then you

431
00:22:03,870 --> 00:22:01,960
can think about also how many people in

432
00:22:06,590 --> 00:22:03,880
the audience thought that there was

433
00:22:11,820 --> 00:22:06,600
anything wrong with this statement and

434
00:22:12,540 --> 00:22:11,830
do you have to explain why it's wrong to

435
00:22:15,420 --> 00:22:12,550
do that

436
00:22:20,580 --> 00:22:15,430
why it was wrong on his part this senior

437
00:22:22,290 --> 00:22:20,590
senior man to do this we can come back

438
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:22,300
to that if you need to so that's an

439
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:24,210
example of a microaggression

440
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:28,930
here's an example of a stereotype a

441
00:22:34,850 --> 00:22:31,930
woman sneaking a promotion is often

442
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:34,860
lauded for by management for her

443
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:39,490
understanding teamwork diplomacy and

444
00:22:45,630 --> 00:22:43,330
service well suppose she's coming up for

445
00:22:48,870 --> 00:22:45,640
tenure in a research intensive

446
00:22:51,930 --> 00:22:48,880
environment none of these things are

447
00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:51,940
going to really play to her strengths

448
00:22:57,540 --> 00:22:54,370
they're not going to be part of her

449
00:23:00,450 --> 00:22:57,550
tenure decision so what do you do in

450
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:00,460
that case if you're her department chair

451
00:23:06,300 --> 00:23:02,610
if you're her colleague if you're her

452
00:23:09,180 --> 00:23:06,310
what do you do and what if the woman

453
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:09,190
involved doesn't display any of these

454
00:23:14,970 --> 00:23:12,010
characteristics like they don't that a

455
00:23:18,410 --> 00:23:14,980
woman doesn't conform to the normal

456
00:23:23,130 --> 00:23:18,420
stereotype of being nurturing

457
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:23,140
what happens then and then this is one I

458
00:23:29,250 --> 00:23:26,730
just learned about this past week a

459
00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:29,260
professor returning from maternity leave

460
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:32,710
is asked to teach an overload to make up

461
00:23:38,910 --> 00:23:36,850
for the missed classes it's like this is

462
00:23:40,770 --> 00:23:38,920
a real discrimination case maternity

463
00:23:44,130 --> 00:23:40,780
leave doesn't mean that you do all the

464
00:23:47,070 --> 00:23:44,140
work after you get back right so if

465
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:47,080
you're a member of this women's

466
00:23:51,570 --> 00:23:48,970
department or if you're her department

467
00:23:54,450 --> 00:23:51,580
chair or if that you're the Dean like

468
00:23:58,170 --> 00:23:54,460
what do you do how do you support a

469
00:24:01,200 --> 00:23:58,180
woman in this position that isn't should

470
00:24:06,270 --> 00:24:01,210
never be confronted with this kind of

471
00:24:08,250 --> 00:24:06,280
question all right so just in closing we

472
00:24:11,730 --> 00:24:08,260
all want to work an environment where

473
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:11,740
everyone can do their best work so

474
00:24:17,010 --> 00:24:14,410
addressing issues like harassment and

475
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:17,020
discrimination microaggressions

476
00:24:24,690 --> 00:24:21,250
unconscious bias stereotypes improves

477
00:24:28,140 --> 00:24:24,700
the climate for all of us so it all

478
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:28,150
starts with you let's work together to

479
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:33,890
[Music]

480
00:24:35,270 --> 00:24:34,450
[Applause]

481
00:24:39,050 --> 00:24:35,280
[Music]

482
00:24:44,330 --> 00:24:39,060
[Applause]

483
00:24:51,030 --> 00:24:48,870
okay so moving on from that really great

484
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:51,040
opener kind of introducing this topic I

485
00:24:54,990 --> 00:24:53,170
would like to have each of our panelists

486
00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:55,000
talk a little bit about their own

487
00:25:00,360 --> 00:24:57,850
backgrounds on their own experiences

488
00:25:02,210 --> 00:25:00,370
with discrimination within astrobiology

489
00:25:06,810 --> 00:25:02,220
in particular in STEM in general and

490
00:25:10,170 --> 00:25:06,820
also their experiences mentoring members

491
00:25:15,020 --> 00:25:10,180
of underrepresented groups so do you

492
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:19,650
yeah let's start with okay well start

493
00:25:26,670 --> 00:25:23,890
with does that move and to the left hi

494
00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:26,680
so like Lauren said earlier my name is

495
00:25:31,980 --> 00:25:29,110
Tessa Fisher and I'm a PhD candidate at

496
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:31,990
ASU working on the extra planet bio

497
00:25:38,580 --> 00:25:36,610
signatures I am also so far to the best

498
00:25:41,660 --> 00:25:38,590
of my knowledge probably the world's

499
00:25:46,590 --> 00:25:41,670
only openly trans lesbian astrobiologist

500
00:25:48,120 --> 00:25:46,600
which has given me thank you a pretty

501
00:25:50,750 --> 00:25:48,130
unique perspective going through

502
00:25:52,980 --> 00:25:50,760
academia especially since I transitioned

503
00:25:56,340 --> 00:25:52,990
right at the point where I finished my

504
00:25:58,800 --> 00:25:56,350
masters and started my PhD so I kind of

505
00:26:00,660 --> 00:25:58,810
like I had enough of a career back when

506
00:26:03,180 --> 00:26:00,670
I was perceived as male to like get a

507
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:03,190
sense of what that's like and then to be

508
00:26:10,650 --> 00:26:05,890
able to contrast that to how I'm treated

509
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:10,660
and perceived now I have been very very

510
00:26:15,540 --> 00:26:13,330
fortunate in that the astrobiology

511
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:15,550
community has been extraordinarily

512
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:19,690
welcoming like literally within hours of

513
00:26:24,390 --> 00:26:22,570
me coming out and you know posting it on

514
00:26:26,100 --> 00:26:24,400
social media like my colleagues in

515
00:26:28,340 --> 00:26:26,110
astrobiology were some of the first

516
00:26:31,890 --> 00:26:28,350
people to switch names and pronouns just

517
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:31,900
completely fluidly did not pass them or

518
00:26:35,130 --> 00:26:33,730
anything it just happened and all of a

519
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:35,140
sudden I was getting emails addressed to

520
00:26:42,330 --> 00:26:36,970
Tessa like it was no big deal and it was

521
00:26:44,220 --> 00:26:42,340
lovely and I've also been very very

522
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:44,230
blessed in that

523
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:45,530
[Music]

524
00:26:49,909 --> 00:26:47,970
unlike a lot of trans people in this

525
00:26:52,730 --> 00:26:49,919
country I've been very privileged I've

526
00:26:56,090 --> 00:26:52,740
been completely accepted and supported

527
00:26:59,840 --> 00:26:56,100
by my family my my my partner and by my

528
00:27:02,750 --> 00:26:59,850
institution Arizona State is noteworthy

529
00:27:06,110 --> 00:27:02,760
in that it's graduate student health

530
00:27:07,789 --> 00:27:06,120
care is fully trans-inclusive which is

531
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:07,799
not common everywhere and it's very

532
00:27:11,750 --> 00:27:09,330
unfortunate because being trans is

533
00:27:15,049 --> 00:27:11,760
really expensive at least from a medical

534
00:27:18,950 --> 00:27:15,059
point of view and admittedly while that

535
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:18,960
wasn't the sole factor in me deciding

536
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:21,330
what university I went to it definitely

537
00:27:26,210 --> 00:27:23,250
played a role knowing that for example

538
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:26,220
that the insurance would cover surgery

539
00:27:35,060 --> 00:27:29,250
for me which it did it saved me $20,000

540
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:35,070
so I'm thanks for the vagina ASU but

541
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:38,250
with all that said it hasn't always been

542
00:27:42,590 --> 00:27:39,690
easy

543
00:27:44,930 --> 00:27:42,600
well I again have been very fortunate my

544
00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:44,940
wife well then Beyonce now wife who was

545
00:27:51,010 --> 00:27:47,130
going through veterinary school at the

546
00:27:55,100 --> 00:27:51,020
time that I came out was subjected to a

547
00:27:57,830 --> 00:27:55,110
fair amount of harassment simply because

548
00:27:59,180 --> 00:27:57,840
she was still partnered with me we

549
00:28:01,220 --> 00:27:59,190
discovered that some of her colleagues

550
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:01,230
in the Veterinary Teaching Hospital

551
00:28:05,570 --> 00:28:03,330
breakroom were having these long and

552
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:05,580
involved discussions involving a lot of

553
00:28:10,810 --> 00:28:07,650
gross speculation both about the nature

554
00:28:13,870 --> 00:28:10,820
of my anatomy and our sex life and

555
00:28:17,149 --> 00:28:13,880
furthermore when we brought this up and

556
00:28:19,370 --> 00:28:17,159
to the University this wasn't at ASU

557
00:28:21,740 --> 00:28:19,380
this was a previous institution to the

558
00:28:24,110 --> 00:28:21,750
university's Equal Opportunity office

559
00:28:26,180 --> 00:28:24,120
they did an investigation but none of

560
00:28:27,710 --> 00:28:26,190
the bystanders or witnesses were willing

561
00:28:31,130 --> 00:28:27,720
to come forward so nothing ever came of

562
00:28:32,330 --> 00:28:31,140
it and honestly that of was one of the

563
00:28:34,279 --> 00:28:32,340
things that eventually led to her

564
00:28:36,230 --> 00:28:34,289
deciding to leave veterinary medicine I

565
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:36,240
mean there was other stuff involved but

566
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:40,650
that was a major factor so you know the

567
00:28:46,370 --> 00:28:44,370
discrimination LGBT people experience in

568
00:28:51,620 --> 00:28:46,380
general is still very real even in this

569
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:51,630
day and age and even though astrobiology

570
00:28:55,430 --> 00:28:53,130
has been really good about it at least

571
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:55,440
from my admittedly limited experience

572
00:29:01,110 --> 00:28:57,610
it's still an issue

573
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:01,120
and even for add more subtle level just

574
00:29:04,910 --> 00:29:02,890
in terms of visibility one of the things

575
00:29:08,039 --> 00:29:04,920
I've loved about this conference is that

576
00:29:10,140 --> 00:29:08,049
they gave out the rainbow pens I've been

577
00:29:11,669 --> 00:29:10,150
in previous conferences where I had no

578
00:29:13,110 --> 00:29:11,679
idea if I was the only person there who

579
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:13,120
wasn't both cisgender and heterosexual

580
00:29:17,310 --> 00:29:15,130
because no one ever talks about it

581
00:29:18,539 --> 00:29:17,320
whereas I get here and I'm like seeing

582
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:18,549
the rainbow pens everywhere and I'm like

583
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:24,010
yes we are legion but you know I it is

584
00:29:29,130 --> 00:29:27,370
gonna be really alienated to walk into a

585
00:29:33,870 --> 00:29:29,140
room and wonder if you're the only

586
00:29:35,789 --> 00:29:33,880
person there who's like you so I mean as

587
00:29:37,830 --> 00:29:35,799
progressive as astrobiology has been in

588
00:29:44,070 --> 00:29:37,840
my experience we still are getting there

589
00:29:45,659 --> 00:29:44,080
we still have a ways to go so I'm Shaun

590
00:29:47,730 --> 00:29:45,669
Donegal Goldman I'm at NASA Goddard

591
00:29:49,530 --> 00:29:47,740
Space Flight Center I have a lot of

592
00:29:51,930 --> 00:29:49,540
privilege in my life and I have not been

593
00:29:55,799 --> 00:29:51,940
discriminated against in my professional

594
00:29:58,100 --> 00:29:55,809
life I am keenly aware of a lot of

595
00:30:00,000 --> 00:29:58,110
discrimination that I'm surrounded by

596
00:30:01,890 --> 00:30:00,010
especially now that I'm coming into

597
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:01,900
leadership roles at the mission level

598
00:30:04,890 --> 00:30:03,490
the research level we've got a research

599
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:04,900
team that that we have made

600
00:30:09,570 --> 00:30:07,090
intentionally diverse and now I'm a

601
00:30:11,490 --> 00:30:09,580
branch chief in the management line so

602
00:30:13,380 --> 00:30:11,500
now I'm doing things for like I'm kind

603
00:30:15,780 --> 00:30:13,390
of like the department chair the

604
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:15,790
equivalent at NASA so that means I'm

605
00:30:20,340 --> 00:30:17,530
doing performance reviews of 16 people

606
00:30:22,860 --> 00:30:20,350
I'm in hiring and firing decisions and

607
00:30:25,860 --> 00:30:22,870
I'm seeing on both the day-to-day and on

608
00:30:27,690 --> 00:30:25,870
those longer-term scales discrimination

609
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:27,700
in the workplace and I'm I mean I'm not

610
00:30:32,909 --> 00:30:30,330
that transition in my career between

611
00:30:34,500 --> 00:30:32,919
seeing a lot of this stuff going on and

612
00:30:37,590 --> 00:30:34,510
now having the power and the

613
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:37,600
responsibility to make that change and

614
00:30:45,060 --> 00:30:39,250
so those are the things I'll be talking

615
00:30:50,220 --> 00:30:45,070
about today hi I'm Jen glass and my

616
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:50,230
pronouns are she her hers and as Lauren

617
00:30:56,310 --> 00:30:53,770
said I'm at Georgia Tech and I've

618
00:31:00,330 --> 00:30:56,320
learned a lot being in Atlanta I think

619
00:31:02,410 --> 00:31:00,340
previously I was definitely more on the

620
00:31:04,660 --> 00:31:02,420
white feminist side

621
00:31:06,940 --> 00:31:04,670
I did not understand how my own

622
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:06,950
privilege at all about really how my own

623
00:31:12,340 --> 00:31:09,410
privilege is a white person and as a

624
00:31:15,010 --> 00:31:12,350
white feminist and I think being in

625
00:31:18,610 --> 00:31:15,020
Atlanta is really and being on Twitter

626
00:31:20,650 --> 00:31:18,620
and then starting to educate my myself

627
00:31:22,990 --> 00:31:20,660
and find ways of getting educated and

628
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:23,000
not not and trying to educate myself as

629
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:26,290
opposed to you know thinking that

630
00:31:30,580 --> 00:31:28,490
underrepresented groups had to educate

631
00:31:32,710 --> 00:31:30,590
me there's a lot of good books out there

632
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:32,720
and a lot of Google out there so I've

633
00:31:40,990 --> 00:31:38,290
learned a lot that way I think I also

634
00:31:43,270 --> 00:31:41,000
something I've done in this community is

635
00:31:45,850 --> 00:31:43,280
I got kind of some of you may know got a

636
00:31:47,890 --> 00:31:45,860
little annoyed a few years ago when

637
00:31:51,250 --> 00:31:47,900
we're after hearing for the fifth time

638
00:31:55,630 --> 00:31:51,260
an origin of life talk that was all all

639
00:31:59,830 --> 00:31:55,640
white men I decided to make a slide that

640
00:32:02,350 --> 00:31:59,840
had every single you know woman I could

641
00:32:04,180 --> 00:32:02,360
think of an origin of life and I'm glad

642
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:04,190
to see that that's been going around and

643
00:32:08,140 --> 00:32:06,170
I'm I need to make a version three

644
00:32:10,900 --> 00:32:08,150
because I know it's missing a lot of

645
00:32:12,670 --> 00:32:10,910
people including um set you know new

646
00:32:16,300 --> 00:32:12,680
members of the community which is so

647
00:32:19,990 --> 00:32:16,310
exciting to see and I've been outspoken

648
00:32:21,820 --> 00:32:20,000
some of you know on Twitter when you

649
00:32:24,340 --> 00:32:21,830
know members of that community are not

650
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:24,350
invited so I've called out some pretty

651
00:32:30,700 --> 00:32:28,490
senior dudes in the field they've been

652
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:30,710
pissed off and that's how things change

653
00:32:39,409 --> 00:32:32,930
especially now that I get now I've got

654
00:32:44,999 --> 00:32:43,499
um excuse me I'm a little sick so I'm

655
00:32:47,759 --> 00:32:45,009
probably gonna coffee every month

656
00:32:52,590 --> 00:32:47,769
swaddle Kendyl inch at lunar and

657
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:52,600
planetary Institute and like true Teresa

658
00:32:59,279 --> 00:32:57,730
I am I often have to go to conferences

659
00:33:01,019 --> 00:32:59,289
and I don't have to wonder it cuz it's

660
00:33:02,879 --> 00:33:01,029
kind of very apparent when I'm the only

661
00:33:05,129 --> 00:33:02,889
one in the room so but I've had that

662
00:33:06,359 --> 00:33:05,139
experience of wondering when when is

663
00:33:07,710 --> 00:33:06,369
that going to change when I'm like when

664
00:33:08,159 --> 00:33:07,720
I might not going to be the only one in

665
00:33:12,139 --> 00:33:08,169
the room

666
00:33:15,450 --> 00:33:12,149
I have also been very fortunate in the

667
00:33:17,549 --> 00:33:15,460
in my time in the astrobiology community

668
00:33:21,690 --> 00:33:17,559
that when I was presented with

669
00:33:23,700 --> 00:33:21,700
challenges as a graduate student with

670
00:33:25,619 --> 00:33:23,710
respect to diversity and discrimination

671
00:33:27,479 --> 00:33:25,629
issues it was members of the

672
00:33:29,940 --> 00:33:27,489
astrobiology community that stepped up

673
00:33:32,249 --> 00:33:29,950
to be my advocates and allies to help me

674
00:33:34,139 --> 00:33:32,259
deal with the issue so I've I've dealt

675
00:33:37,229 --> 00:33:34,149
with a lot of issues over the course of

676
00:33:39,269 --> 00:33:37,239
my my time in my training and up till

677
00:33:41,129 --> 00:33:39,279
now but it was always members of the

678
00:33:44,389 --> 00:33:41,139
astrobiology community that always

679
00:33:47,009 --> 00:33:44,399
stepped up to to kind of advocate and

680
00:33:47,849 --> 00:33:47,019
help me through that so I'll be talking

681
00:33:50,430 --> 00:33:47,859
a lot about that today

682
00:33:52,470 --> 00:33:50,440
and one other small area that I wouldn't

683
00:33:55,259 --> 00:33:52,480
like to kind of address here that can be

684
00:33:58,950 --> 00:33:55,269
another issue I'm also a survivor of

685
00:34:02,009 --> 00:33:58,960
domestic violence and domestic abuse and

686
00:34:03,239 --> 00:34:02,019
I think it's something that in addition

687
00:34:05,820 --> 00:34:03,249
to sexual harassment in the workplace

688
00:34:08,909 --> 00:34:05,830
it's also something that affects a lot

689
00:34:13,369 --> 00:34:08,919
more women and men than we know and

690
00:34:15,839 --> 00:34:13,379
women and men in in educated in educated

691
00:34:17,339 --> 00:34:15,849
high-level positions like all of us are

692
00:34:19,079 --> 00:34:17,349
in it's you know there's a stigma that

693
00:34:21,750 --> 00:34:19,089
domestic violence only happens to a

694
00:34:25,020 --> 00:34:21,760
certain type of person and that's not

695
00:34:28,740 --> 00:34:25,030
true my now ex-husband was a medical

696
00:34:31,889 --> 00:34:28,750
doctor and was abusive and I had started

697
00:34:35,339 --> 00:34:31,899
to learn through the process of escaping

698
00:34:37,950 --> 00:34:35,349
that that situation and healing that you

699
00:34:40,530 --> 00:34:37,960
know the you know all of a sudden all

700
00:34:43,230 --> 00:34:40,540
the stories of women lawyers IT

701
00:34:45,930 --> 00:34:43,240
professionals other medical doctors

702
00:34:47,399 --> 00:34:45,940
other scientists that had the same

703
00:34:49,980 --> 00:34:47,409
experience so I think it's also

704
00:34:51,580 --> 00:34:49,990
something that we need to talk about and

705
00:34:54,670 --> 00:34:51,590
we need to advocate and

706
00:34:56,110 --> 00:34:54,680
I and support the members are committing

707
00:34:58,120 --> 00:34:56,120
it with because it's something that's

708
00:34:59,830 --> 00:34:58,130
even more insidious and more difficult

709
00:35:02,290 --> 00:34:59,840
to talk about because it happens behind

710
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:02,300
closed doors at home and we really need

711
00:35:06,070 --> 00:35:03,890
to start being there for our those

712
00:35:08,740 --> 00:35:06,080
people and try to to help and support

713
00:35:10,510 --> 00:35:08,750
them when we see or suspect something is

714
00:35:19,240 --> 00:35:10,520
going on so I'll talk a little bit more

715
00:35:22,300 --> 00:35:19,250
about that today great okay so I'm going

716
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:22,310
to start opening up to some questions

717
00:35:27,070 --> 00:35:25,610
I'm going to lead with a question just

718
00:35:29,050 --> 00:35:27,080
to kind of get the conversation going

719
00:35:31,900 --> 00:35:29,060
and then I would like to invite all of

720
00:35:35,410 --> 00:35:31,910
you to ask questions you can ask

721
00:35:38,860 --> 00:35:35,420
specific panel members or you can open

722
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:38,870
up a question to the entire panel the

723
00:35:44,170 --> 00:35:41,050
question that I have for the panel is

724
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:44,180
what do you think marks the difference

725
00:36:05,309 --> 00:35:48,290
between diversity and inclusivity what

726
00:36:10,599 --> 00:36:07,620
that's the winner

727
00:36:16,509 --> 00:36:10,609
musical microphones that they all look

728
00:36:20,229 --> 00:36:16,519
the same right so I am senior enough in

729
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:20,239
the field of astronomy to remember when

730
00:36:26,529 --> 00:36:22,729
we were talking about diversity and not

731
00:36:29,589 --> 00:36:26,539
adding inclusion so I will tell you that

732
00:36:33,159 --> 00:36:29,599
I will confess open openly here that I

733
00:36:36,639 --> 00:36:33,169
had to think very seriously about what

734
00:36:39,219 --> 00:36:36,649
that meant what what was it that made us

735
00:36:41,979 --> 00:36:39,229
go from thinking about diversity to

736
00:36:47,439 --> 00:36:41,989
diversity and inclusion and diversity

737
00:36:51,339 --> 00:36:47,449
for me was say if you have a university

738
00:36:56,259 --> 00:36:51,349
department and they want to hire a

739
00:37:00,429 --> 00:36:56,269
diverse set of new assistant professors

740
00:37:03,189 --> 00:37:00,439
and if that set of assistant professors

741
00:37:05,799 --> 00:37:03,199
comes into an environment that's exactly

742
00:37:07,929 --> 00:37:05,809
the same as it had been for the past 20

743
00:37:11,459 --> 00:37:07,939
years it's going to be very difficult

744
00:37:15,489 --> 00:37:11,469
for them to thrive in that environment

745
00:37:19,659 --> 00:37:15,499
where inclusion is where the department

746
00:37:23,969 --> 00:37:19,669
itself changes and adjusts and looks at

747
00:37:27,459 --> 00:37:23,979
its own prejudices and stereotypes and

748
00:37:30,999 --> 00:37:27,469
changes as a result of the fact that

749
00:37:35,309 --> 00:37:31,009
they want to be a better environment

750
00:37:38,739 --> 00:37:35,319
that they want to welcome a more diverse

751
00:37:40,359 --> 00:37:38,749
set of new new assistant professors that

752
00:37:42,669 --> 00:37:40,369
they want to be inclusive

753
00:37:45,909 --> 00:37:42,679
so inclusion is what we do as an

754
00:37:49,949 --> 00:37:45,919
institution to change the environment

755
00:37:54,009 --> 00:37:49,959
that we've had for many many years and

756
00:37:57,429 --> 00:37:54,019
diversity is bringing people in from all

757
00:37:58,989 --> 00:37:57,439
walks of life and creating and inclusion

758
00:38:03,319 --> 00:37:58,999
is creating the environment where they

759
00:38:08,839 --> 00:38:07,279
sort of to echo what Jim said I'm very

760
00:38:14,630 --> 00:38:08,849
much of a similar opinion that diversity

761
00:38:16,970 --> 00:38:14,640
is more of a measure of demographics and

762
00:38:20,329 --> 00:38:16,980
it that's still important but inclusion

763
00:38:22,430 --> 00:38:20,339
really is talking about the actual

764
00:38:24,140 --> 00:38:22,440
culture the actual mindset of the

765
00:38:27,890 --> 00:38:24,150
institution or the environment or

766
00:38:30,799 --> 00:38:27,900
whatever it you know group of people

767
00:38:33,170 --> 00:38:30,809
that you're examining that you can have

768
00:38:35,269 --> 00:38:33,180
extremely diverse environments and

769
00:38:38,359 --> 00:38:35,279
they're not inclusive because the

770
00:38:41,299 --> 00:38:38,369
overall culture still only focuses on

771
00:38:46,210 --> 00:38:41,309
one particular class or type of person

772
00:38:49,029 --> 00:38:46,220
and kind of just speak to lesser degree

773
00:38:52,489 --> 00:38:49,039
begrudgingly tolerates everybody else

774
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:52,499
and I think that that's why sort of the

775
00:38:56,180 --> 00:38:54,170
gradual shift we've had in attitudes

776
00:38:57,799 --> 00:38:56,190
going from just talking about diversity

777
00:39:04,160 --> 00:38:57,809
did to talking about inclusion has been

778
00:39:07,670 --> 00:39:04,170
so so important totally agree I I think

779
00:39:09,499 --> 00:39:07,680
as in a management role the thing I've

780
00:39:12,769 --> 00:39:09,509
been trying to figure out is how do you

781
00:39:15,620 --> 00:39:12,779
do both of those when without one it's

782
00:39:17,720 --> 00:39:15,630
really hard to do the other if you don't

783
00:39:19,370 --> 00:39:17,730
have the inclusivity you're not going to

784
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:19,380
retain any diversity that you recruit to

785
00:39:24,829 --> 00:39:22,410
your department or your institution on

786
00:39:27,289 --> 00:39:24,839
the other hand more diverse environments

787
00:39:29,630 --> 00:39:27,299
tend to be more inclusive and so trying

788
00:39:31,099 --> 00:39:29,640
to work on both of those axes at the

789
00:39:32,599 --> 00:39:31,109
same time is something I've been trying

790
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:32,609
to pay a lot of attention to and I know

791
00:39:43,220 --> 00:39:38,249
as a challenge right I'll add on also I

792
00:39:46,989 --> 00:39:43,230
think inclusivity is empowering it's

793
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:46,999
also creating a culture that empowers

794
00:39:55,940 --> 00:39:52,650
its diverse membership to pursue you

795
00:40:00,289 --> 00:39:55,950
know positions of leadership and then

796
00:40:03,170 --> 00:40:00,299
you start to see that the the

797
00:40:05,150 --> 00:40:03,180
demographics at the you know higher up

798
00:40:08,950 --> 00:40:05,160
on the ladder are changing and so I

799
00:40:11,180 --> 00:40:08,960
think that's a good something you know

800
00:40:13,989 --> 00:40:11,190
something to really keep an eye on

801
00:40:16,730 --> 00:40:13,999
because if it's only you know I think

802
00:40:19,250 --> 00:40:16,740
students probably tend to be more diver

803
00:40:21,230 --> 00:40:19,260
right and this an institution can say oh

804
00:40:22,310 --> 00:40:21,240
look how diverse our student population

805
00:40:26,450 --> 00:40:22,320
is everything's great

806
00:40:29,690 --> 00:40:26,460
but until you have role models that look

807
00:40:31,490 --> 00:40:29,700
like those students I don't think it's

808
00:40:34,820 --> 00:40:31,500
really gonna change much it's gonna take

809
00:40:36,290 --> 00:40:34,830
an incredibly long time so I agree with

810
00:40:38,450 --> 00:40:36,300
everything that's just been said but I'd

811
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:38,460
also like to add an element of inclusion

812
00:40:44,300 --> 00:40:41,970
also is understanding yes you can have

813
00:40:45,470 --> 00:40:44,310
lots of diversity but inclusion even

814
00:40:47,990 --> 00:40:45,480
when you have lots of diversity doesn't

815
00:40:50,180 --> 00:40:48,000
always follow give you an example in my

816
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:50,190
workplace and in college life where I

817
00:40:55,370 --> 00:40:53,690
was lucky to be in very diverse you know

818
00:40:57,589 --> 00:40:55,380
environments where there was actually a

819
00:40:59,270 --> 00:40:57,599
lot of black professionals so there were

820
00:41:01,490 --> 00:40:59,280
you know we had a very diverse work and

821
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:01,500
school environment but when activities

822
00:41:05,210 --> 00:41:03,570
happen the black professionals did their

823
00:41:07,010 --> 00:41:05,220
activities and the white professional

824
00:41:09,410 --> 00:41:07,020
said their activities and there was no

825
00:41:10,730 --> 00:41:09,420
inclusivity across line and a lot of it

826
00:41:12,980 --> 00:41:10,740
that I discovered is that the black

827
00:41:14,870 --> 00:41:12,990
professionals felt that the white

828
00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:14,880
professionals didn't understand them

829
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:16,800
enough so they couldn't be themselves

830
00:41:20,270 --> 00:41:19,050
outside of professional time because

831
00:41:21,829 --> 00:41:20,280
they were worried about the inherent

832
00:41:24,079 --> 00:41:21,839
biases that would come up if they could

833
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:24,089
actually let their hair down and be

834
00:41:29,390 --> 00:41:28,170
themselves so for me inclusivity is kind

835
00:41:32,510 --> 00:41:29,400
of breaking that line and having that

836
00:41:35,300 --> 00:41:32,520
dialogue of understanding you know what

837
00:41:36,589 --> 00:41:35,310
what their what their comfort zone is

838
00:41:39,620 --> 00:41:36,599
and how they like to be when they are

839
00:41:41,089 --> 00:41:39,630
not working and when they're kind of in

840
00:41:42,380 --> 00:41:41,099
their space like understanding their

841
00:41:44,839 --> 00:41:42,390
space understand they're in our comfort

842
00:41:47,359 --> 00:41:44,849
zone and being able to step into their

843
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:47,369
world and be comfortable in it and then

844
00:41:51,290 --> 00:41:49,050
you know then you can really have

845
00:41:53,240 --> 00:41:51,300
inclusiveness and so in the context of

846
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:53,250
grad school it's basically making sure

847
00:41:56,930 --> 00:41:55,050
that you understand your diverse

848
00:41:58,490 --> 00:41:56,940
students making sure you understand what

849
00:42:00,650 --> 00:41:58,500
their perspective and their experience

850
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:00,660
in their background is and making sure

851
00:42:03,620 --> 00:42:02,130
that when you create activities for your

852
00:42:05,420 --> 00:42:03,630
students or your lab or your group that

853
00:42:07,010 --> 00:42:05,430
you have that in mind you create that

854
00:42:09,950 --> 00:42:07,020
activity so you do something that is

855
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:09,960
inclusive for their experience so that's

856
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:16,770
something that I think is important like

857
00:42:22,140 --> 00:42:18,690
all those answers

858
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:22,150
okay so I'd like to open things up to

859
00:42:27,210 --> 00:42:24,490
the audience so there's a microphone up

860
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:27,220
here if you have a question come on up

861
00:42:32,310 --> 00:42:30,010
we can form a line I guess behind the

862
00:42:40,890 --> 00:42:32,320
microphone so see it's the race to the

863
00:42:41,820 --> 00:42:40,900
microphone I think that I come from a

864
00:42:44,550 --> 00:42:41,830
very diverse

865
00:42:47,340 --> 00:42:44,560
oh I'm dawn Sumner and in Earth and

866
00:42:50,780 --> 00:42:47,350
Planetary Science UC Davis I got from

867
00:42:52,500 --> 00:42:50,790
the most diverse earth science research

868
00:42:56,370 --> 00:42:52,510
department in the country

869
00:42:58,380 --> 00:42:56,380
and a lot of the reason it is diverse is

870
00:43:01,800 --> 00:42:58,390
because there were people dedicated to

871
00:43:05,190 --> 00:43:01,810
inclusivity before the diversity emerged

872
00:43:08,670 --> 00:43:05,200
right and so I would like to challenge

873
00:43:11,210 --> 00:43:08,680
all of us who are in roles of leadership

874
00:43:14,670 --> 00:43:11,220
that we can start those conversations

875
00:43:17,730 --> 00:43:14,680
about inclusivity even when we lack the

876
00:43:19,370 --> 00:43:17,740
diversity and one of the reasons that my

877
00:43:22,650 --> 00:43:19,380
department has been able to maintain

878
00:43:26,340 --> 00:43:22,660
diversity is because we place that

879
00:43:28,020 --> 00:43:26,350
inclusivity at a high level and right

880
00:43:29,820 --> 00:43:28,030
now we're my departments under a little

881
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:29,830
bit of threat due to various

882
00:43:34,770 --> 00:43:31,570
circumstances and the number of faculty

883
00:43:36,270 --> 00:43:34,780
are going way down and one of the one of

884
00:43:38,820 --> 00:43:36,280
the things that we're working on is how

885
00:43:41,550 --> 00:43:38,830
do we actually convince our university

886
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:41,560
administration that we should actually

887
00:43:47,430 --> 00:43:44,410
be invested in because we can meet those

888
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:47,440
goals we know we have the environment to

889
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:50,370
meet those goals for an inclusive

890
00:43:56,700 --> 00:43:54,130
department and that leads that leads to

891
00:43:58,200 --> 00:43:56,710
the diversity so I really like that

892
00:44:00,990 --> 00:43:58,210
question you started with with the

893
00:44:04,140 --> 00:44:01,000
inclusivity because that's that's what

894
00:44:07,230 --> 00:44:04,150
allows people to thrive even white men

895
00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:07,240
thrive better in an inclusive way

896
00:44:11,580 --> 00:44:09,040
straight men right it's better for

897
00:44:15,550 --> 00:44:11,590
everyone except a few people who get

898
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:15,780
[Music]

899
00:44:22,599 --> 00:44:18,850
[Applause]

900
00:44:24,330 --> 00:44:22,609
um my name is mache Aaron I'm a second

901
00:44:28,420 --> 00:44:24,340
year PhD student at Johns Hopkins

902
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:28,430
studying Planetary Science um something

903
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:30,970
that I've noticed throughout my years of

904
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:36,530
being in what I do um I'm always by

905
00:44:41,770 --> 00:44:39,410
myself like I'm the only black girl in a

906
00:44:44,580 --> 00:44:41,780
group and there will be other minorities

907
00:44:48,010 --> 00:44:44,590
but they wouldn't be underrepresented

908
00:44:50,590 --> 00:44:48,020
minorities and one of the things that I

909
00:44:54,430 --> 00:44:50,600
noticed also is like so I I'm from the

910
00:44:57,190 --> 00:44:54,440
south from Texas so I have an accent and

911
00:45:00,790 --> 00:44:57,200
I've actually had white colleagues get

912
00:45:04,180 --> 00:45:00,800
on me on how I say um the names of

913
00:45:08,140 --> 00:45:04,190
certain instruments or certain chemicals

914
00:45:10,630 --> 00:45:08,150
or minerals and I can't help but that's

915
00:45:13,030 --> 00:45:10,640
just how I talk so I was just wondering

916
00:45:14,260 --> 00:45:13,040
how do y'all handle situations like that

917
00:45:18,099 --> 00:45:14,270
where you're by yourself

918
00:45:19,750 --> 00:45:18,109
and you encounter someone that basically

919
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:19,760
just makes fun of how you say your

920
00:45:35,710 --> 00:45:30,650
science mmm a great question I I don't

921
00:45:37,690 --> 00:45:35,720
know I mean as far as as as far as like

922
00:45:40,090 --> 00:45:37,700
how I speak its I've kind of had the

923
00:45:45,580 --> 00:45:40,100
opposite where I've been told I talk to

924
00:45:47,470 --> 00:45:45,590
white so I basically kind of I tend to

925
00:45:49,660 --> 00:45:47,480
use humor to deal with those things so I

926
00:45:52,210 --> 00:45:49,670
kind of turn it on them and and use

927
00:45:54,130 --> 00:45:52,220
humor in some way shape or form as far

928
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:54,140
as being the only chocolate drop in the

929
00:46:00,430 --> 00:45:56,570
room yes that's a real problem and I've

930
00:46:05,050 --> 00:46:00,440
experienced it all through but through

931
00:46:07,780 --> 00:46:05,060
most of my my graduate school time what

932
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:07,790
I can tell you is is that some of the

933
00:46:11,770 --> 00:46:08,810
things that we're doing to deal with

934
00:46:14,109 --> 00:46:11,780
that is that we are developing a network

935
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:14,119
to communicate with each other to to

936
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:15,770
connect all of our minority especially

937
00:46:21,849 --> 00:46:19,850
our scientists of color and trying to

938
00:46:23,410 --> 00:46:21,859
encourage them all to try to share and

939
00:46:25,720 --> 00:46:23,420
find each other at meetings so that we

940
00:46:26,270 --> 00:46:25,730
can start to increase the diversity in

941
00:46:28,190 --> 00:46:26,280
these

942
00:46:30,350 --> 00:46:28,200
like I've seen a lot more diversity at

943
00:46:31,970 --> 00:46:30,360
this meeting and it's been great it's it

944
00:46:34,610 --> 00:46:31,980
didn't like probably the last two or

945
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:34,620
three apps icons have been where I have

946
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:36,450
not been the only one and it's been

947
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:41,850
really exciting so as far as as far as

948
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:43,200
how you handle it when you are the only

949
00:46:53,900 --> 00:46:48,090
one you

950
00:46:59,840 --> 00:46:53,910
I pretty much and how I handle it was I

951
00:47:04,460 --> 00:46:59,850
I pretty much just you know said I just

952
00:47:07,310 --> 00:47:04,470
decided it was an opportunity to to make

953
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:07,320
a difference and change it so I think

954
00:47:11,090 --> 00:47:08,850
that's pretty much kind of how I handle

955
00:47:13,580 --> 00:47:11,100
it it was frustrating and I would

956
00:47:15,170 --> 00:47:13,590
usually make comments to to the meeting

957
00:47:17,030 --> 00:47:15,180
organizers or to this you know the

958
00:47:19,250 --> 00:47:17,040
session of the workshop organizers and

959
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:19,260
I'd go and try to find out like well

960
00:47:22,130 --> 00:47:21,090
where are our diverse you know students

961
00:47:24,770 --> 00:47:22,140
and what's going on what are the

962
00:47:26,690 --> 00:47:24,780
demographics so basically I use it as an

963
00:47:32,210 --> 00:47:26,700
opportunity to get in and participate in

964
00:47:33,890 --> 00:47:32,220
and make an encourage change and by the

965
00:47:35,720 --> 00:47:33,900
way that's the thing we all should be

966
00:47:37,850 --> 00:47:35,730
doing right like that shouldn't be on

967
00:47:39,890 --> 00:47:37,860
you right like that that's that and

968
00:47:42,010 --> 00:47:39,900
that's what being a an advocate and

969
00:47:44,210 --> 00:47:42,020
moving into that space is all about so

970
00:47:45,290 --> 00:47:44,220
ideally like for all the other senior

971
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:45,300
folks in the room like you should be

972
00:47:48,980 --> 00:47:47,850
making it more comfortable so that you

973
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:48,990
know people don't have to think about

974
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:51,570
code switching or whatnot and and can

975
00:47:56,900 --> 00:47:53,010
choose what they want to do in that

976
00:47:58,790 --> 00:47:56,910
space and as far as somebody making fun

977
00:47:59,960 --> 00:47:58,800
of how you talk I would just flat-out

978
00:48:02,960 --> 00:47:59,970
say that's not appropriate

979
00:48:04,190 --> 00:48:02,970
I mean don't don't hold any punches it's

980
00:48:07,370 --> 00:48:04,200
not appropriate and I don't appreciate

981
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:07,380
it and and if they can't handle it what

982
00:48:11,450 --> 00:48:08,730
you have to remember it's their problem

983
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:11,460
not yours that's the important thing

984
00:48:14,690 --> 00:48:13,650
but they need to be told it's not

985
00:48:15,860 --> 00:48:14,700
appropriate and that you don't

986
00:48:17,210 --> 00:48:15,870
appreciate it and it's about it's

987
00:48:19,220 --> 00:48:17,220
crossing a boundary and they need to

988
00:48:19,970 --> 00:48:19,230
understand where the boundary is so you

989
00:48:21,010 --> 00:48:19,980
don't hold back

990
00:48:31,660 --> 00:48:21,020
you tell them that's not appropriate

991
00:48:34,460 --> 00:48:31,670
okay so I I just want to acknowledge

992
00:48:36,890 --> 00:48:34,470
what you said in terms of it's

993
00:48:39,190 --> 00:48:36,900
incredibly difficult to be the first

994
00:48:40,569 --> 00:48:39,200
person in a group

995
00:48:42,789 --> 00:48:40,579
and underrepresented and an

996
00:48:46,539 --> 00:48:42,799
underrepresented group or the only

997
00:48:49,870 --> 00:48:46,549
person in the room and that it

998
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:49,880
definitely is harder to do all of that

999
00:48:55,599 --> 00:48:52,970
to think that is the burden really on my

1000
00:48:59,530 --> 00:48:55,609
shoulders to change this entire

1001
00:49:02,289 --> 00:48:59,540
organization so that I can fit in and I

1002
00:49:05,980 --> 00:49:02,299
think that groups like this that are

1003
00:49:08,549 --> 00:49:05,990
really looking at allies and advocates

1004
00:49:11,799 --> 00:49:08,559
or how to become allies and advocates is

1005
00:49:14,710 --> 00:49:11,809
this is the responsibility of everybody

1006
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:14,720
that this is exactly the kind of thing

1007
00:49:20,980 --> 00:49:17,210
that you're trying to help with if

1008
00:49:22,750 --> 00:49:20,990
you're in a position of privilege this

1009
00:49:24,549 --> 00:49:22,760
is what you should and you want to be an

1010
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:24,559
ally this is what you should be

1011
00:49:32,980 --> 00:49:28,930
addressing so I always try to think of

1012
00:49:35,349 --> 00:49:32,990
yes I remember many many times where I

1013
00:49:37,930 --> 00:49:35,359
was the first woman in a department or

1014
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:37,940
the first the only woman in a conference

1015
00:49:48,569 --> 00:49:43,490
or the only woman ad at the table and I

1016
00:49:52,260 --> 00:49:48,579
can talk about my experiences my

1017
00:49:56,620 --> 00:49:52,270
first-hand experiences as a woman and

1018
00:50:00,880 --> 00:49:56,630
and and ask for allies and advocates for

1019
00:50:04,420 --> 00:50:00,890
women but I also want to be an ally or

1020
00:50:06,370 --> 00:50:04,430
an advocate to say women of color and I

1021
00:50:09,849 --> 00:50:06,380
don't obviously since I'm white I don't

1022
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:09,859
have that first-hand experience I need

1023
00:50:18,430 --> 00:50:15,410
to be listening to to try to not charge

1024
00:50:24,069 --> 00:50:18,440
on charge in on my high horse saying I

1025
00:50:27,789 --> 00:50:24,079
know what I can do for you rather I need

1026
00:50:29,940 --> 00:50:27,799
to listen to what you're telling me of

1027
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:29,950
how ways that I can help

1028
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:33,890
so allies and advocates are really

1029
00:50:38,500 --> 00:50:36,530
important it's the people of privilege

1030
00:50:41,799 --> 00:50:38,510
whatever privilege we have and we all

1031
00:50:46,510 --> 00:50:41,809
have some trying to help everyone and

1032
00:50:49,930 --> 00:50:46,520
and and trying to get out of our comfort

1033
00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:49,940
zones move away from our stereotypes to

1034
00:51:01,780 --> 00:50:59,530
thank you hi Scott Gowdy Ohio State

1035
00:51:03,700 --> 00:51:01,790
University first I just want to say

1036
00:51:06,460 --> 00:51:03,710
thank you I think it's amazing we're

1037
00:51:09,670 --> 00:51:06,470
having this panel here I want to

1038
00:51:10,900 --> 00:51:09,680
actually I want to ask the moderator if

1039
00:51:12,730 --> 00:51:10,910
it's okay that I make a small

1040
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:12,740
advertisement it's relevant I promise

1041
00:51:16,690 --> 00:51:15,410
not leaves I don't know if this was said

1042
00:51:19,330 --> 00:51:16,700
already but there is the second

1043
00:51:22,420 --> 00:51:19,340
inclusive astronomy conference is coming

1044
00:51:24,670 --> 00:51:22,430
up it is October let me see if I get

1045
00:51:26,350 --> 00:51:24,680
this right 14th and 15th at Space

1046
00:51:29,110 --> 00:51:26,360
Telescope Science Institute I'm on the

1047
00:51:32,770 --> 00:51:29,120
SLC which is why I'm advertising this Lu

1048
00:51:35,770 --> 00:51:32,780
stroller at SDS CI is the SOC chair so I

1049
00:51:37,420 --> 00:51:35,780
encourage you to think about trying to

1050
00:51:38,980 --> 00:51:37,430
attend that conference if you can I

1051
00:51:41,790 --> 00:51:38,990
mention this because I'm an astronomer

1052
00:51:45,460 --> 00:51:41,800
not an astrobiologist despite what Sean

1053
00:51:46,900 --> 00:51:45,470
I do have a question though and and I

1054
00:51:50,860 --> 00:51:46,910
also want to thank you for bringing up

1055
00:51:55,180 --> 00:51:50,870
the the the issue about about domestic

1056
00:51:58,390 --> 00:51:55,190
abuse I myself was a victim of domestic

1057
00:52:01,240 --> 00:51:58,400
abuse and I think it's something that we

1058
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:01,250
feel like as strong as scientists that

1059
00:52:05,710 --> 00:52:03,050
we cannot bring these kinds of things

1060
00:52:07,720 --> 00:52:05,720
into into our professional lives we

1061
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:07,730
should hide them when in fact they do

1062
00:52:12,820 --> 00:52:10,010
affect our ability to accomplish our

1063
00:52:14,890 --> 00:52:12,830
jobs and it affected mine so I really

1064
00:52:16,930 --> 00:52:14,900
appreciate you bringing that up my

1065
00:52:18,460 --> 00:52:16,940
question is about the something that I

1066
00:52:20,140 --> 00:52:18,470
just learned very recently and I'm

1067
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:20,150
ashamed to say that it just recently

1068
00:52:25,390 --> 00:52:23,090
learned about it neuro diversity and I

1069
00:52:26,980 --> 00:52:25,400
myself have a mild case of Asperger's

1070
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:26,990
syndrome and so I have a tendency did

1071
00:52:31,330 --> 00:52:30,050
not notice nonverbal cues as a result I

1072
00:52:33,190 --> 00:52:31,340
tend to talk over people not

1073
00:52:36,010 --> 00:52:33,200
intentionally but just because I don't

1074
00:52:38,380 --> 00:52:36,020
realize they're done speaking and I have

1075
00:52:40,630 --> 00:52:38,390
this has been interpreted by some subset

1076
00:52:44,110 --> 00:52:40,640
of people as being hostile to certain

1077
00:52:46,750 --> 00:52:44,120
underrepresented or groups because of

1078
00:52:50,950 --> 00:52:46,760
the fact that I am I talk over people

1079
00:52:52,630 --> 00:52:50,960
even though I try fully forgot so so

1080
00:52:56,290 --> 00:52:52,640
this is a question where two different

1081
00:52:59,440 --> 00:52:56,300
kinds of diversity right and we want to

1082
00:53:01,920 --> 00:52:59,450
include both but it's not but sometimes

1083
00:53:04,349 --> 00:53:01,930
one can be misinterpreted as being

1084
00:53:07,019 --> 00:53:04,359
bigoted or hostile or whatever

1085
00:53:08,910 --> 00:53:07,029
or prejudice when that's not when it's

1086
00:53:12,569 --> 00:53:08,920
really just someone manifesting their

1087
00:53:13,950 --> 00:53:12,579
neurodiversity and similarly the you

1088
00:53:16,739 --> 00:53:13,960
couldn't misinterpret it from the other

1089
00:53:18,779 --> 00:53:16,749
side as well so how do we how do we deal

1090
00:53:20,549 --> 00:53:18,789
with these these as we start dealing

1091
00:53:22,319 --> 00:53:20,559
with more and more kinds of diversity

1092
00:53:29,309 --> 00:53:22,329
how do we deal with these kinds of

1093
00:53:32,609 --> 00:53:29,319
conflict it's a great question so as it

1094
00:53:34,349 --> 00:53:32,619
turns out my husband has Asperger's so I

1095
00:53:36,989 --> 00:53:34,359
deal with this on a daily basis as well

1096
00:53:38,430 --> 00:53:36,999
and I think I think how we deal with

1097
00:53:43,589 --> 00:53:38,440
that especially like neural diversity is

1098
00:53:46,739 --> 00:53:43,599
I just think that we for those of us who

1099
00:53:48,599 --> 00:53:46,749
maybe you know for those of us that have

1100
00:53:49,799 --> 00:53:48,609
some privilege or don't have to deal

1101
00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:49,809
with those things I think we have to

1102
00:53:54,150 --> 00:53:51,730
learn to be comfortable in understanding

1103
00:53:56,370 --> 00:53:54,160
that that diversity exists so that we

1104
00:53:59,489 --> 00:53:56,380
create a safe space for those of us who

1105
00:54:02,099 --> 00:53:59,499
have these diversities LGBTQ narrow

1106
00:54:04,799 --> 00:54:02,109
diversity can communicate that diversity

1107
00:54:06,599 --> 00:54:04,809
so that we can create understanding so

1108
00:54:08,940 --> 00:54:06,609
that we can create you know a safe space

1109
00:54:11,099 --> 00:54:08,950
of understanding one of the things I

1110
00:54:12,150 --> 00:54:11,109
encourage my husband to do is to

1111
00:54:13,859 --> 00:54:12,160
communicate to people he doesn't

1112
00:54:17,069 --> 00:54:13,869
necessarily say hey I have Asperger's he

1113
00:54:19,650 --> 00:54:17,079
can just say you know I don't always get

1114
00:54:21,150 --> 00:54:19,660
social cues can you I sometimes will

1115
00:54:22,589 --> 00:54:21,160
over talk and I won't get a social cues

1116
00:54:26,599 --> 00:54:22,599
so can you be a little bit more direct

1117
00:54:28,799 --> 00:54:26,609
with me in his workplace so I think that

1118
00:54:31,229 --> 00:54:28,809
there are those strategies that we can

1119
00:54:33,089 --> 00:54:31,239
do to kind of help communicate and help

1120
00:54:35,069 --> 00:54:33,099
and foster understanding but that takes

1121
00:54:36,509 --> 00:54:35,079
the other side being receptive and

1122
00:54:38,579 --> 00:54:36,519
that's where we really have to work on

1123
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:38,589
people being receptive and open to

1124
00:54:51,820 --> 00:54:40,690
differences and I think that's the big

1125
00:55:02,600 --> 00:54:55,220
don't die on a scandal I need you for

1126
00:55:06,110 --> 00:55:02,610
another like 20 minutes so so I have a

1127
00:55:09,020 --> 00:55:06,120
secret it was a secret for the first 55

1128
00:55:11,810 --> 00:55:09,030
years of my life and no one knew about

1129
00:55:17,210 --> 00:55:11,820
it except my closest friends and that

1130
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:17,220
was that I am dyslexic and around a

1131
00:55:24,650 --> 00:55:19,650
number of years ago I started telling

1132
00:55:31,850 --> 00:55:24,660
people in my in my peer group in my on

1133
00:55:34,970 --> 00:55:31,860
my teams in my leadership coalition that

1134
00:55:39,740 --> 00:55:34,980
I had this disability and it was

1135
00:55:47,150 --> 00:55:39,750
extremely difficult for me to do certain

1136
00:55:50,780 --> 00:55:47,160
aspects of my job and I was amazed at

1137
00:55:56,470 --> 00:55:50,790
how supportive people were when I

1138
00:55:59,090 --> 00:55:56,480
finally let people know about this so I

1139
00:56:01,790 --> 00:55:59,100
for the past year I've been doing

1140
00:56:06,050 --> 00:56:01,800
science and public outreach I am

1141
00:56:08,690 --> 00:56:06,060
responsible for things like editing a

1142
00:56:10,310 --> 00:56:08,700
newsletter writing press releases all

1143
00:56:12,980 --> 00:56:10,320
sorts of things that involve writing

1144
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:12,990
that are I'm a I'm a pretty good writer

1145
00:56:21,020 --> 00:56:15,570
but I'm a terrible I am the world's

1146
00:56:26,030 --> 00:56:21,030
worst copy editor so I asked my team

1147
00:56:28,610 --> 00:56:26,040
members to step up and because I said my

1148
00:56:32,650 --> 00:56:28,620
eyes can never be the last set that see

1149
00:56:35,330 --> 00:56:32,660
this document and it was amazing how

1150
00:56:38,270 --> 00:56:35,340
supportive they were and receptive they

1151
00:56:39,830 --> 00:56:38,280
were they didn't put me in a box where I

1152
00:56:41,990 --> 00:56:39,840
had always thought of this as a weakness

1153
00:56:44,870 --> 00:56:42,000
and it turned out that it strengthened

1154
00:56:48,020 --> 00:56:44,880
our team for them to know about this and

1155
00:56:51,020 --> 00:56:48,030
for for them to be able to do components

1156
00:56:59,000 --> 00:56:51,030
of the job that I could not not myself

1157
00:57:04,300 --> 00:56:59,010
do so telling a group of people that you

1158
00:57:08,650 --> 00:57:04,310
have this particular ask for

1159
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:08,660
dyslexia whatever it might be it is

1160
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:11,610
surprising to me and amazing how

1161
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:14,490
supportive people can be in that sort of

1162
00:57:20,690 --> 00:57:17,970
circumstance I just wanted to say real

1163
00:57:22,970 --> 00:57:20,700
quick that as someone who has ADHD I

1164
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:22,980
totally feel you on the missing social

1165
00:57:26,630 --> 00:57:24,090
cues talking to more people without

1166
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:26,640
realizing a thing what's worked for me

1167
00:57:31,490 --> 00:57:28,890
and honestly I think this can be applied

1168
00:57:33,770 --> 00:57:31,500
to a lot of topics we're talking about

1169
00:57:36,380 --> 00:57:33,780
when things are being brought up is to

1170
00:57:39,170 --> 00:57:36,390
as hard as it is avoid the temptation to

1171
00:57:41,930 --> 00:57:39,180
go on the defensive you know and I think

1172
00:57:44,540 --> 00:57:41,940
as long as you're making you know a good

1173
00:57:47,870 --> 00:57:44,550
faith effort and you're not going to be

1174
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:47,880
perfect no one here is I think that can

1175
00:57:58,760 --> 00:57:56,130
really get you pretty far hello everyone

1176
00:58:01,010 --> 00:57:58,770
my name is joy I'm at the Carnegie

1177
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:01,020
Institute for science in Washington DC I

1178
00:58:04,070 --> 00:58:02,370
want to thank you all for sharing your

1179
00:58:07,820 --> 00:58:04,080
stories it's very important to hear from

1180
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:07,830
diverse perspectives and in the spirit

1181
00:58:11,420 --> 00:58:09,810
of Pride Month and Lauren you shared

1182
00:58:13,850 --> 00:58:11,430
you're bisexual I've never came out

1183
00:58:17,690 --> 00:58:13,860
professionally before but I too am a

1184
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:17,700
bisexual you don't have to copy me it's

1185
00:58:24,700 --> 00:58:21,570
not a big deal but I do have a question

1186
00:58:26,780 --> 00:58:24,710
so Joan you shared your story of your

1187
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:26,790
sexual harasser only receiving

1188
00:58:30,860 --> 00:58:28,410
administrative Lee a slap on the wrist

1189
00:58:33,590 --> 00:58:30,870
so maybe it falls on us too

1190
00:58:37,580 --> 00:58:33,600
professionally and academically punish

1191
00:58:39,740 --> 00:58:37,590
them maybe so my question is should we

1192
00:58:41,390 --> 00:58:39,750
do that should we stop sending our

1193
00:58:43,190 --> 00:58:41,400
students to those perpetrators Labs

1194
00:58:45,530 --> 00:58:43,200
should we stop citing their work what if

1195
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:45,540
it's really important work should we

1196
00:58:50,450 --> 00:58:47,730
divorce the product that they produce

1197
00:58:54,140 --> 00:58:50,460
from the person I'd love to hear your

1198
00:58:58,910 --> 00:58:54,150
perspectives great question so many good

1199
00:59:02,140 --> 00:58:58,920
questions so I I should clarify the the

1200
00:59:05,180 --> 00:59:02,150
the any of the the people in the recent

1201
00:59:07,870 --> 00:59:05,190
press have were not my sexual harassers

1202
00:59:12,130 --> 00:59:07,880
so I was definitely working

1203
00:59:14,140 --> 00:59:12,140
the scenes and as part of that work

1204
00:59:16,089 --> 00:59:14,150
trying to figure out what to do before

1205
00:59:18,999 --> 00:59:16,099
you know any of the title nine

1206
00:59:21,970 --> 00:59:19,009
complaints were filed was you know what

1207
00:59:25,450 --> 00:59:21,980
do you do as a professional who knows

1208
00:59:29,349 --> 00:59:25,460
about this and but everybody's like

1209
00:59:31,569 --> 00:59:29,359
pretending they don't know and one of

1210
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:31,579
the I saw I was a blogger at the time I

1211
00:59:37,180 --> 00:59:33,890
blogged for a long time for for women in

1212
00:59:40,779 --> 00:59:37,190
astronomy and one of the things I wrote

1213
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:40,789
about was a call to shun question mark

1214
00:59:45,910 --> 00:59:44,210
that you know we all just so this person

1215
00:59:47,759 --> 00:59:45,920
shows up at our meetings do we all just

1216
00:59:52,329 --> 00:59:47,769
turn away from him so that was a

1217
00:59:54,519 --> 00:59:52,339
possibility that people had raised at at

1218
00:59:56,620 --> 00:59:54,529
the same time I was working at the

1219
01:00:00,519 --> 00:59:56,630
National Science Foundation as a rotator

1220
01:00:02,769 --> 01:00:00,529
and I asked all of my colleagues who

1221
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:02,779
knew about this particular individual

1222
01:00:09,190 --> 01:00:06,650
say what do you do what do we do if this

1223
01:00:11,620 --> 01:00:09,200
person submits a proposal some of the

1224
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:11,630
people on the review panel know about

1225
01:00:17,650 --> 01:00:14,930
the the history some of them don't how

1226
01:00:21,670 --> 01:00:17,660
do we deal with it if that if this issue

1227
01:00:24,430 --> 01:00:21,680
comes up do we and at the time they said

1228
01:00:27,009 --> 01:00:24,440
you just have to stop this is not part

1229
01:00:30,370 --> 01:00:27,019
of the proposal this can't be addressed

1230
01:00:31,269 --> 01:00:30,380
which was very very discouraging and

1231
01:00:35,620 --> 01:00:31,279
unsatisfying

1232
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:35,630
but now the NSF has a new policy so it's

1233
01:00:40,839 --> 01:00:37,490
a you know it's like I'd like to think

1234
01:00:42,910 --> 01:00:40,849
it's stemmed from from from that I don't

1235
01:00:44,529 --> 01:00:42,920
know if it did but it certainly was true

1236
01:00:46,599 --> 01:00:44,539
that I would talk to anyone in the

1237
01:00:50,799 --> 01:00:46,609
building who would listen to me about

1238
01:00:52,660 --> 01:00:50,809
this kind of issue so I I think if it's

1239
01:00:54,279 --> 01:00:52,670
it's also the other thing that's not

1240
01:00:55,660 --> 01:00:54,289
part of this little talk that we gave

1241
01:00:58,089 --> 01:00:55,670
today but it's part of my bigger

1242
01:01:00,789 --> 01:00:58,099
sexual-harassment talk I finally had to

1243
01:01:03,519 --> 01:01:00,799
add a slide on why women especially

1244
01:01:06,249 --> 01:01:03,529
women don't report and it's like there's

1245
01:01:08,529 --> 01:01:06,259
so many incredibly good reasons because

1246
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:08,539
people that have never been there don't

1247
01:01:10,930 --> 01:01:09,890
really have a feel why don't you just

1248
01:01:12,490 --> 01:01:10,940
report it'll just be out in the open

1249
01:01:14,259 --> 01:01:12,500
everybody will know about it and then we

1250
01:01:15,999 --> 01:01:14,269
can do something about it and there's so

1251
01:01:18,700 --> 01:01:16,009
many good reasons and I think that

1252
01:01:20,620 --> 01:01:18,710
there's even more reasons now so if

1253
01:01:23,110 --> 01:01:20,630
anyone comes to me for advice my

1254
01:01:25,990 --> 01:01:23,120
first the first thing I say is that is

1255
01:01:36,850 --> 01:01:26,000
not going report it's like we need to

1256
01:01:38,740 --> 01:01:36,860
understand the situation first I just

1257
01:01:41,250 --> 01:01:38,750
want to echo what was just said I mean

1258
01:01:45,970 --> 01:01:41,260
even this week in the media you see why

1259
01:01:50,290 --> 01:01:45,980
women don't report right with the latest

1260
01:01:52,330 --> 01:01:50,300
rape accusations against Trump and just

1261
01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:52,340
they're completely getting kind of

1262
01:01:58,390 --> 01:01:56,090
dismissed by large and she's asking

1263
01:01:59,860 --> 01:01:58,400
should I have even bothered gosh I'm

1264
01:02:03,790 --> 01:01:59,870
getting harassed in this interview

1265
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:03,800
should I have even bothered what what

1266
01:02:08,650 --> 01:02:06,050
has seemed to be the most successful

1267
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:08,660
lately is telling BuzzFeed anonymously

1268
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:11,330
or telling someone who knows the editor

1269
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:13,730
at BuzzFeed and will pass along to

1270
01:02:19,420 --> 01:02:15,890
BuzzFeed that's how a prominent member

1271
01:02:22,390 --> 01:02:19,430
of the community who gave a keynote at

1272
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:22,400
this conference two years ago was taken

1273
01:02:28,090 --> 01:02:26,090
away by enlarge okay was BuzzFeed so

1274
01:02:30,460 --> 01:02:28,100
that's all I'm gonna say

1275
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:30,470
but then there were some but the way it

1276
01:02:36,490 --> 01:02:34,130
was done right was very brave people in

1277
01:02:39,220 --> 01:02:36,500
the community were willing to women were

1278
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:39,230
willing to speak up publicly in that

1279
01:02:44,020 --> 01:02:41,690
article right and I don't know if I

1280
01:02:44,650 --> 01:02:44,030
would have had the courage so that's a

1281
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:44,660
tough one

1282
01:02:56,380 --> 01:02:53,210
yeah so I know a reporter who happens to

1283
01:02:58,750 --> 01:02:56,390
work for BuzzFeed she is someone that I

1284
01:03:02,350 --> 01:02:58,760
would trust with anything including my

1285
01:03:04,630 --> 01:03:02,360
deepest darkest secrets so she's that

1286
01:03:07,420 --> 01:03:04,640
she's the one that broke the case that

1287
01:03:09,460 --> 01:03:07,430
that I spoke about there were four

1288
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:09,470
original complainants she talked to all

1289
01:03:13,780 --> 01:03:11,810
of them two of them wanted to remain

1290
01:03:16,990 --> 01:03:13,790
anonymous as far as I know those names

1291
01:03:20,530 --> 01:03:17,000
have never gotten out so she was the and

1292
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:20,540
she's continued on this for on this

1293
01:03:24,790 --> 01:03:23,330
issue for quite some time but she is one

1294
01:03:30,510 --> 01:03:24,800
of those reporters that I would trust

1295
01:03:35,830 --> 01:03:33,610
I'll just say I know I'm moderating and

1296
01:03:38,260 --> 01:03:35,840
not on the panel but I think that a lot

1297
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:38,270
of this comes down to your own personal

1298
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:38,930
comfort

1299
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:42,650
if it were me and I knew that someone in

1300
01:03:46,690 --> 01:03:44,570
a department was an abuser and that

1301
01:03:48,250 --> 01:03:46,700
those higher up in the chain were not

1302
01:03:50,830 --> 01:03:48,260
doing anything about it

1303
01:03:53,170 --> 01:03:50,840
then I would avoid working with them at

1304
01:03:55,330 --> 01:03:53,180
all costs I would not send a student to

1305
01:03:58,990 --> 01:03:55,340
them to work with them

1306
01:04:01,330 --> 01:03:59,000
I think that a lot of it does have to

1307
01:04:02,950 --> 01:04:01,340
come down to you know personal choices

1308
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:02,960
and personal responsibility and you have

1309
01:04:09,420 --> 01:04:05,450
to decide at what level you're you're

1310
01:04:12,750 --> 01:04:09,430
willing to do something or commit to

1311
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:12,760
taking this person out of action if not

1312
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:18,610
through higher-ups then just socially I

1313
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:20,690
was just going to add one more point

1314
01:04:24,490 --> 01:04:22,250
because it reminded me when you said

1315
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:24,500
that that we used to have something we

1316
01:04:31,780 --> 01:04:27,130
still call it the whisper Network that

1317
01:04:33,700 --> 01:04:31,790
the that word about particular sexual

1318
01:04:37,270 --> 01:04:33,710
harasser of serial harassers would get

1319
01:04:41,010 --> 01:04:37,280
around via whispers in the back room and

1320
01:04:44,770 --> 01:04:41,020
I had never heard the whisper network

1321
01:04:46,690 --> 01:04:44,780
phrase expressed outside of the whisper

1322
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:46,700
network and recently I've heard it more

1323
01:04:51,370 --> 01:04:49,010
and more so it's like the whisper

1324
01:04:54,250 --> 01:04:51,380
network is becoming more of a thing that

1325
01:04:56,260 --> 01:04:54,260
people know about so that's at least the

1326
01:05:01,330 --> 01:04:56,270
one way that Department members used to

1327
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:01,340
try and steer away potential targets for

1328
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:05,930
the harasser on the other side when I'm

1329
01:05:10,390 --> 01:05:08,570
mentoring a student that's looking at

1330
01:05:12,940 --> 01:05:10,400
going places where I know of somebody

1331
01:05:16,510 --> 01:05:12,950
that has at least had a rumor to be a

1332
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:16,520
problem that's not public I I won't tell

1333
01:05:21,430 --> 01:05:18,650
the student don't go there I will tell

1334
01:05:22,450 --> 01:05:21,440
the student this is what is out there

1335
01:05:24,940 --> 01:05:22,460
and this was what this is what I've

1336
01:05:26,860 --> 01:05:24,950
heard and this is what I believe to be

1337
01:05:28,150 --> 01:05:26,870
true so that way the student knows

1338
01:05:31,180 --> 01:05:28,160
because otherwise you set up the

1339
01:05:32,650 --> 01:05:31,190
potential for like I actually steal the

1340
01:05:34,870 --> 01:05:32,660
guys away from the same people but you

1341
01:05:36,570 --> 01:05:34,880
if you if you if you just tell the women

1342
01:05:39,130 --> 01:05:36,580
don't go work with this famous person

1343
01:05:40,900 --> 01:05:39,140
you you set up a potential where you

1344
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:40,910
know the guys get to go work with him

1345
01:05:45,430 --> 01:05:43,130
and the women don't and that

1346
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:45,440
also can have an impact so what I tend

1347
01:05:48,490 --> 01:05:46,970
to do is if I feel like there's that

1348
01:05:49,900 --> 01:05:48,500
someone could be at risk

1349
01:05:51,130 --> 01:05:49,910
I make sure they know so at least

1350
01:05:52,780 --> 01:05:51,140
they're going in eyes might open like

1351
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:52,790
that that that's an issue there I'm

1352
01:06:03,550 --> 01:05:55,130
gonna let them then make that decision

1353
01:06:06,100 --> 01:06:03,560
for themselves if they feel safe in

1354
01:06:09,010 --> 01:06:06,110
addition to that I also as I've had this

1355
01:06:10,900 --> 01:06:09,020
experience on the other in other areas

1356
01:06:14,140 --> 01:06:10,910
not assertive sexual but like racial

1357
01:06:15,940 --> 01:06:14,150
discrimination I also in addition to not

1358
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:15,950
telling that person don't go there but

1359
01:06:20,890 --> 01:06:18,170
in giving them eyes wide open also I

1360
01:06:23,020 --> 01:06:20,900
point them towards resources if you do

1361
01:06:26,260 --> 01:06:23,030
this you choose to do this and you have

1362
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:26,270
a problem here's a B C that can be your

1363
01:06:30,490 --> 01:06:28,730
advocate here is another resource I try

1364
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:30,500
to point them in resources so that they

1365
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:33,010
are not only eyes wide open but armed to

1366
01:06:38,790 --> 01:06:35,570
help themselves to protect themselves if

1367
01:06:41,050 --> 01:06:38,800
something happens very good point yeah

1368
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:41,060
there's another a word that I thought

1369
01:06:44,350 --> 01:06:42,290
about when I was putting together this

1370
01:06:48,460 --> 01:06:44,360
panel no not that one

1371
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:48,470
I'm thinking that one too like and

1372
01:06:52,780 --> 01:06:51,650
that's accomplice how I was I kind of

1373
01:06:53,770 --> 01:06:52,790
shrunk away from that cuz I was like I

1374
01:06:56,290 --> 01:06:53,780
don't want people to get the wrong idea

1375
01:06:57,580 --> 01:06:56,300
but yeah you in addition to being an

1376
01:06:59,620 --> 01:06:57,590
ally in addition to being an advocate

1377
01:07:02,620 --> 01:06:59,630
you have to be someone's someone's

1378
01:07:08,740 --> 01:07:02,630
partner now I'm in this and and on their

1379
01:07:11,590 --> 01:07:08,750
side thank you everybody for doing this

1380
01:07:13,180 --> 01:07:11,600
I really appreciate this is happening

1381
01:07:21,690 --> 01:07:13,190
I'm Hilary Hartnett and I'm at Arizona

1382
01:07:25,859 --> 01:07:23,849
I'm finding as I get further along in my

1383
01:07:27,569 --> 01:07:25,869
career that I am beginning to be

1384
01:07:29,700 --> 01:07:27,579
obsessed about institutions and

1385
01:07:31,460 --> 01:07:29,710
institutional issues and I think it's

1386
01:07:34,620 --> 01:07:31,470
really important as we talk about

1387
01:07:36,510 --> 01:07:34,630
inclusivity to recognize that there are

1388
01:07:38,099 --> 01:07:36,520
fundamental equity problems in many

1389
01:07:39,780 --> 01:07:38,109
institutions that prevent us from

1390
01:07:41,549 --> 01:07:39,790
maintaining an inclusive environment

1391
01:07:44,069 --> 01:07:41,559
that are beyond some of our controls

1392
01:07:46,230 --> 01:07:44,079
right and so I guess my question is to

1393
01:07:50,819 --> 01:07:46,240
the more senior people on the panel

1394
01:07:52,500 --> 01:07:50,829
which is how do we really enact the

1395
01:07:54,780 --> 01:07:52,510
institutional change and I'll I'll

1396
01:07:57,329 --> 01:07:54,790
choose a sort of classical example that

1397
01:07:59,280 --> 01:07:57,339
women and minorities are underpaid at

1398
01:08:00,630 --> 01:07:59,290
least say within the Academy relative to

1399
01:08:03,510 --> 01:08:00,640
their male colleagues right it's sort of

1400
01:08:06,359 --> 01:08:03,520
a classic example but it is probably one

1401
01:08:08,430 --> 01:08:06,369
of the deepest barriers to an inclusive

1402
01:08:11,190 --> 01:08:08,440
community and say the faculty level that

1403
01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:11,200
we have and that is something that we

1404
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:19,330
don't talk about very well well one

1405
01:08:23,820 --> 01:08:21,730
thing that jumps to mind right away in

1406
01:08:28,860 --> 01:08:23,830
terms of another aspect on the Pei Pei

1407
01:08:31,260 --> 01:08:28,870
scheme is is reimbursements for students

1408
01:08:34,349 --> 01:08:31,270
and it can we start fronting the money

1409
01:08:36,590 --> 01:08:34,359
for the travel instead of reinforcing

1410
01:08:39,780 --> 01:08:36,600
[Music]

1411
01:08:48,059 --> 01:08:39,790
and getting rid of the jerries so those

1412
01:08:49,530 --> 01:08:48,069
are do you think that you can I think in

1413
01:08:51,030 --> 01:08:49,540
in terms of setting inclusive

1414
01:08:53,610 --> 01:08:51,040
environments and places where they

1415
01:08:55,470 --> 01:08:53,620
aren't it all-inclusive like like the

1416
01:08:57,240 --> 01:08:55,480
branch that I'm managing right now or at

1417
01:08:58,910 --> 01:08:57,250
least aren't diverse and are working and

1418
01:09:01,110 --> 01:08:58,920
making it more inclusive is is

1419
01:09:02,550 --> 01:09:01,120
encouraging the individuals that you

1420
01:09:04,829 --> 01:09:02,560
think can be leaders within that

1421
01:09:08,550 --> 01:09:04,839
institution to get the training they

1422
01:09:12,329 --> 01:09:08,560
need to help lead other people so that

1423
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:12,339
way they can the the people that if you

1424
01:09:15,959 --> 01:09:14,650
if you train them to be better they'll

1425
01:09:19,130 --> 01:09:15,969
have a larger effect than just one

1426
01:09:25,590 --> 01:09:24,210
also for different universities and I

1427
01:09:28,349 --> 01:09:25,600
know that this you know there's probably

1428
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:28,359
only so much you can do here but for

1429
01:09:31,890 --> 01:09:30,010
supporting those diverse programs the

1430
01:09:34,610 --> 01:09:31,900
women and the women programs in the

1431
01:09:38,340 --> 01:09:34,620
minority programs advocating for

1432
01:09:40,770 --> 01:09:38,350
high-level people of power to be put in

1433
01:09:43,290 --> 01:09:40,780
those positions for example most

1434
01:09:45,390 --> 01:09:43,300
diversity programs they have like I was

1435
01:09:46,410 --> 01:09:45,400
an engineer minority engineering

1436
01:09:48,180 --> 01:09:46,420
programs they have a director of

1437
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:48,190
engineering programs at my alma mater

1438
01:09:53,910 --> 01:09:50,970
that director of that program was a Dean

1439
01:09:55,470 --> 01:09:53,920
and that Dean had power and so we had a

1440
01:09:57,980 --> 01:09:55,480
very successful program because he had

1441
01:10:00,750 --> 01:09:57,990
power to make things happen and so

1442
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:00,760
advocating for people of power to be in

1443
01:10:04,410 --> 01:10:02,890
that position you know to be to be

1444
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:04,420
having those programs to make sure that

1445
01:10:15,660 --> 01:10:13,810
they are successful would really help so

1446
01:10:17,220 --> 01:10:15,670
it's going back to the pay scale thing

1447
01:10:19,950 --> 01:10:17,230
there's some a couple of different

1448
01:10:23,250 --> 01:10:19,960
things that come to mind the the first

1449
01:10:27,500 --> 01:10:23,260
one is that the more transparent we are

1450
01:10:31,110 --> 01:10:27,510
the more equal the pay scales are so

1451
01:10:35,670 --> 01:10:31,120
state universities have almost an easier

1452
01:10:37,230 --> 01:10:35,680
time of having a an equal pay scale than

1453
01:10:40,350 --> 01:10:37,240
private universities because we never

1454
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:40,360
know what it is but the other thing is

1455
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:45,610
the entry-level aspect when people come

1456
01:10:56,970 --> 01:10:52,890
in to a position and negotiate bargain

1457
01:11:03,630 --> 01:10:56,980
advocate for their own salary and

1458
01:11:06,780 --> 01:11:03,640
benefits and this is definitely one of

1459
01:11:12,330 --> 01:11:06,790
the aspects that that keeps the the

1460
01:11:15,510 --> 01:11:12,340
gender pay scale unequal because men

1461
01:11:21,620 --> 01:11:15,520
seems to bargain as a natural part of

1462
01:11:25,530 --> 01:11:21,630
their job application and women don't

1463
01:11:29,340 --> 01:11:25,540
it's so a number of years ago I had to

1464
01:11:30,980 --> 01:11:29,350
learn how to bargain as a senior woman

1465
01:11:33,380 --> 01:11:30,990
in astronomy

1466
01:11:35,930 --> 01:11:33,390
and boy was it ever intimidating because

1467
01:11:39,050 --> 01:11:35,940
when you push back on your original

1468
01:11:41,210 --> 01:11:39,060
offer you're you're thinking well how

1469
01:11:45,440 --> 01:11:41,220
much should I push how much will how

1470
01:11:47,810 --> 01:11:45,450
aggressive will I be and women are

1471
01:11:49,970 --> 01:11:47,820
thought of as aggressive and men are

1472
01:11:52,690 --> 01:11:49,980
thought of as assertive and there's the

1473
01:11:56,330 --> 01:11:52,700
stereotypical doubles double standard

1474
01:12:01,460 --> 01:11:56,340
so women that doesn't conform to women's

1475
01:12:03,440 --> 01:12:01,470
stereotype but it is for men so if men

1476
01:12:05,450 --> 01:12:03,450
come in to say an assistant professor

1477
01:12:07,270 --> 01:12:05,460
position they're starting out at a

1478
01:12:09,560 --> 01:12:07,280
higher salary because they bargained and

1479
01:12:10,910 --> 01:12:09,570
women are like oh yeah that sounds like

1480
01:12:12,860 --> 01:12:10,920
good that sounds like a good salary to

1481
01:12:16,630 --> 01:12:12,870
me and they're immediately from the very

1482
01:12:19,820 --> 01:12:16,640
from the very entry levels of academia

1483
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:19,830
already working on working at lower pay

1484
01:12:26,780 --> 01:12:24,210
and somehow either we have to all be

1485
01:12:29,150 --> 01:12:26,790
able to bargain equally which kind of

1486
01:12:31,340 --> 01:12:29,160
defeats the purpose or we have to like

1487
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:31,350
eliminate our ganang from from this and

1488
01:12:38,540 --> 01:12:34,290
it's it just it's like so this whole

1489
01:12:40,610 --> 01:12:38,550
thing about arguing creates this unequal

1490
01:12:42,710 --> 01:12:40,620
pay scale because men and women look at

1491
01:12:44,720 --> 01:12:42,720
it differently and the most important

1492
01:12:49,940 --> 01:12:44,730
thing is they're perceived differently

1493
01:12:51,530 --> 01:12:49,950
when they do it before we take the next

1494
01:12:54,950 --> 01:12:51,540
question I just want to let everyone

1495
01:12:57,380 --> 01:12:54,960
know that on the schedule this panel

1496
01:13:00,020 --> 01:12:57,390
officially ends at 6:30 and that is to

1497
01:13:02,270 --> 01:13:00,030
allow people time to get to the public

1498
01:13:03,590 --> 01:13:02,280
lecture if they want to go however if

1499
01:13:05,930 --> 01:13:03,600
you don't plan to go to the public

1500
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:05,940
lecture I am happy to keep taking

1501
01:13:10,010 --> 01:13:08,250
questions as long as the panelists happy

1502
01:13:11,900 --> 01:13:10,020
to do so because there have been so many

1503
01:13:14,210 --> 01:13:11,910
good questions and this discussion is so

1504
01:13:15,209 --> 01:13:14,220
good so just letting people know if you

1505
01:13:16,890 --> 01:13:15,219
go to the pub

1506
01:13:22,589 --> 01:13:16,900
lecture and you need time to get there

1507
01:13:24,509 --> 01:13:22,599
now the time Sanjoy come on Darryl good

1508
01:13:27,180 --> 01:13:24,519
evening my name is Sanjay some research

1509
01:13:30,390 --> 01:13:27,190
scientists at Blue Marble space so I'm a

1510
01:13:33,419 --> 01:13:30,400
mixed-race baby the race I expressed

1511
01:13:39,390 --> 01:13:33,429
genetically is a principal component of

1512
01:13:42,959 --> 01:13:39,400
my racial identity and so I the person's

1513
01:13:46,649 --> 01:13:42,969
race is not identified on a CV or

1514
01:13:50,279 --> 01:13:46,659
picture you need to know somebody and

1515
01:13:53,129 --> 01:13:50,289
not just see somebody to really get a

1516
01:13:55,069 --> 01:13:53,139
sense of who they are so those of you

1517
01:13:58,319 --> 01:13:55,079
who make diversity and inclusion

1518
01:14:04,339 --> 01:13:58,329
decisions based on CVS and pictures only

1519
01:14:09,169 --> 01:14:04,349
I urge caution humans are complicated

1520
01:14:14,489 --> 01:14:12,540
hello my name is Colby osburgh I'm a

1521
01:14:20,100 --> 01:14:14,499
first year PhD student at UC Riverside

1522
01:14:22,879 --> 01:14:20,110
and clearly I'm quite pasty but I have

1523
01:14:25,830 --> 01:14:22,889
grown up around color my entire life and

1524
01:14:29,100 --> 01:14:25,840
I find it super enlightening to around

1525
01:14:32,009 --> 01:14:29,110
be around a variety of cultures but ever

1526
01:14:35,969 --> 01:14:32,019
since I have stepped into the stem field

1527
01:14:39,810 --> 01:14:35,979
I have noticed a very distinct lack of

1528
01:14:40,950 --> 01:14:39,820
diversity of color I was in the physics

1529
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:40,960
department at San Francisco State

1530
01:14:45,209 --> 01:14:43,210
University a generally diverse City but

1531
01:14:48,899 --> 01:14:45,219
yet there was only one black woman in

1532
01:14:50,609 --> 01:14:48,909
the physics department and as a white

1533
01:14:52,919 --> 01:14:50,619
man you know I have never had a problem

1534
01:14:54,540 --> 01:14:52,929
with not being included but I can only

1535
01:14:57,180 --> 01:14:54,550
imagine you know what it's like for

1536
01:15:00,540 --> 01:14:57,190
someone like her and I think the most

1537
01:15:03,810 --> 01:15:00,550
striking experience I had was at LPS C

1538
01:15:05,669 --> 01:15:03,820
in Houston was very recently they have a

1539
01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:05,679
huge post room in there because it's a

1540
01:15:13,859 --> 01:15:07,570
very big conference and it's just a big

1541
01:15:16,379 --> 01:15:13,869
sea of white old men and for me it is

1542
01:15:18,299 --> 01:15:16,389
also uncomfortable just you know being

1543
01:15:20,310 --> 01:15:18,309
surrounded by no color and I think the

1544
01:15:21,870 --> 01:15:20,320
part that hurt me the most was it's a

1545
01:15:23,370 --> 01:15:21,880
bunch of white men talking about science

1546
01:15:24,010 --> 01:15:23,380
and then all the people working at the

1547
01:15:27,610 --> 01:15:24,020
hotel

1548
01:15:29,590 --> 01:15:27,620
I mean the Mexican and seeing that a

1549
01:15:33,070 --> 01:15:29,600
difference really bothered me and hurt

1550
01:15:34,570 --> 01:15:33,080
me and so I was just wondering what you

1551
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:34,580
guys I mean obviously I know your

1552
01:15:39,820 --> 01:15:37,130
opinion on it but more so like what you

1553
01:15:42,100 --> 01:15:39,830
think the problem is because it's not a

1554
01:15:44,050 --> 01:15:42,110
problem in you know difference in

1555
01:15:46,180 --> 01:15:44,060
intelligence the problem with something

1556
01:15:48,310 --> 01:15:46,190
that has to do like with early education

1557
01:15:49,270 --> 01:15:48,320
and not getting excited about science or

1558
01:15:50,740 --> 01:15:49,280
something like that so I was wondering

1559
01:15:58,450 --> 01:15:50,750
what you guys think the problem is and

1560
01:15:59,680 --> 01:15:58,460
what the solution would be so you're

1561
01:16:01,120 --> 01:15:59,690
right it's not about it's not about

1562
01:16:02,950 --> 01:16:01,130
intelligence it's not about an interest

1563
01:16:06,700 --> 01:16:02,960
in science it's about what we talked

1564
01:16:08,830 --> 01:16:06,710
about earlier that inclusivity and that

1565
01:16:10,959 --> 01:16:08,840
acceptance and understanding that other

1566
01:16:12,700 --> 01:16:10,969
person's world so what a lot of how what

1567
01:16:14,110 --> 01:16:12,710
happens to a lot of minority men and

1568
01:16:16,660 --> 01:16:14,120
women when we get into the upper echelon

1569
01:16:19,900 --> 01:16:16,670
of education where we start to become

1570
01:16:23,860 --> 01:16:19,910
the only one or fewer and fewer is that

1571
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:23,870
because the groups that were in don't

1572
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:25,610
always make create inclusive

1573
01:16:28,180 --> 01:16:27,050
environments in the departments that

1574
01:16:29,350 --> 01:16:28,190
were in don't always create inclusive

1575
01:16:31,270 --> 01:16:29,360
environments and some of the

1576
01:16:33,220 --> 01:16:31,280
universities don't always create

1577
01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:33,230
inclusive environments we start to feel

1578
01:16:39,550 --> 01:16:36,170
isolated and isolation in academia is a

1579
01:16:43,270 --> 01:16:39,560
death sentence for your career and it's

1580
01:16:46,110 --> 01:16:43,280
it's a that is probably one of the

1581
01:16:48,370 --> 01:16:46,120
biggest problems why you have a lot of

1582
01:16:51,430 --> 01:16:48,380
inspectors and especially women of color

1583
01:16:52,479 --> 01:16:51,440
exit academia because if I'm gonna feel

1584
01:16:54,580 --> 01:16:52,489
like this I might as well go out in the

1585
01:16:55,630 --> 01:16:54,590
industry make a lot of money you know if

1586
01:16:59,800 --> 01:16:55,640
I'm gonna have to put up with this kind

1587
01:17:02,560 --> 01:16:59,810
of isolation so I think that is the crux

1588
01:17:04,390 --> 01:17:02,570
of the problem is that we need to create

1589
01:17:07,810 --> 01:17:04,400
that inclusive environment and it can

1590
01:17:09,459 --> 01:17:07,820
start with you going up and including

1591
01:17:10,900 --> 01:17:09,469
that black student and talking to her

1592
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:10,910
and creating a space where she feels

1593
01:17:13,810 --> 01:17:12,890
included and welcome and comfortable now

1594
01:17:14,950 --> 01:17:13,820
you're not going to understand their

1595
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:14,960
experience you're not going to talk to

1596
01:17:18,700 --> 01:17:16,130
be able to talk to her about being a

1597
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:18,710
black girl in physics and you know her

1598
01:17:21,670 --> 01:17:20,330
issues trying to find like a hairdresser

1599
01:17:22,750 --> 01:17:21,680
in this new town and all that

1600
01:17:26,620 --> 01:17:22,760
Constantinus not gonna be able to do

1601
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:26,630
that but you can let her know and feel

1602
01:17:30,430 --> 01:17:28,610
that she is welcome and that she is

1603
01:17:31,810 --> 01:17:30,440
valued for who she is and what she

1604
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:31,820
brings in her intelligence and what

1605
01:17:35,709 --> 01:17:34,010
she's going to contribute as a member of

1606
01:17:45,339 --> 01:17:35,719
your group your department

1607
01:17:47,739 --> 01:17:45,349
versity liz miller university of

1608
01:17:52,750 --> 01:17:47,749
washington i'm wondering if you could

1609
01:17:54,790 --> 01:17:52,760
speak to even if what you might do in a

1610
01:17:56,950 --> 01:17:54,800
situation where you either witness are

1611
01:17:59,020 --> 01:17:56,960
the victim of harassment or a

1612
01:18:00,969 --> 01:17:59,030
microaggression if you're someone who

1613
01:18:02,399 --> 01:18:00,979
really doesn't have a lot of power for

1614
01:18:04,930 --> 01:18:02,409
example if you're a grad student and

1615
01:18:06,910 --> 01:18:04,940
especially if the person is someone

1616
01:18:08,770 --> 01:18:06,920
whose work you really respect someone

1617
01:18:11,529 --> 01:18:08,780
you feel like you want to make a good

1618
01:18:13,359 --> 01:18:11,539
impression on and you know because you

1619
01:18:15,729 --> 01:18:13,369
want to be able to stand up no matter

1620
01:18:17,169 --> 01:18:15,739
what but sometimes you know you really

1621
01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:17,179
care about the science and this is

1622
01:18:21,399 --> 01:18:18,530
someone who's really important in your

1623
01:18:22,629 --> 01:18:21,409
field and and if you just don't have a

1624
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:22,639
lot of power kind of how you deal with

1625
01:18:44,510 --> 01:18:42,260
so I'll I'll start and say that one of

1626
01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:44,520
the one of the one of the ways you can

1627
01:18:51,770 --> 01:18:49,050
do it is to reach out to an ally or an

1628
01:18:55,310 --> 01:18:51,780
advocate who has more power if you feel

1629
01:18:58,700 --> 01:18:55,320
powerless get somebody else to use their

1630
01:19:01,310 --> 01:18:58,710
privilege to help you so that's one way

1631
01:19:05,750 --> 01:19:01,320
to do it so I think there's lots of

1632
01:19:08,300 --> 01:19:05,760
other answers but how do you wanna go

1633
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:08,310
first I was gonna say the exact same

1634
01:19:12,590 --> 01:19:10,530
thing yeah you find you find somebody

1635
01:19:14,810 --> 01:19:12,600
who has privilege of power especially if

1636
01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:14,820
there was witnesses to it and you have

1637
01:19:19,490 --> 01:19:17,610
them address it with that person and and

1638
01:19:22,010 --> 01:19:19,500
take them on and that's that is

1639
01:19:24,680 --> 01:19:22,020
definitely a path to get things resolved

1640
01:19:28,670 --> 01:19:24,690
and I've I've done that multiple times

1641
01:19:30,710 --> 01:19:28,680
throughout my education and it is it is

1642
01:19:35,180 --> 01:19:30,720
pretty much the main way to get those

1643
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:35,190
kind of problems resolved I having been

1644
01:19:40,100 --> 01:19:38,130
in a number of situations where I it has

1645
01:19:42,130 --> 01:19:40,110
been clear to me and not clear to a

1646
01:19:44,180 --> 01:19:42,140
person at the table that they were

1647
01:19:45,970 --> 01:19:44,190
making what I thought a major

1648
01:19:48,110 --> 01:19:45,980
microaggression on someone else

1649
01:19:49,970 --> 01:19:48,120
checking in with the person that you

1650
01:19:52,100 --> 01:19:49,980
felt the micro aggression was against

1651
01:19:54,950 --> 01:19:52,110
after the fact can make a big difference

1652
01:19:56,720 --> 01:19:54,960
because you know having them see that

1653
01:20:00,260 --> 01:19:56,730
someone else saw what they saw in that

1654
01:20:02,600 --> 01:20:00,270
room can be really validating and

1655
01:20:04,580 --> 01:20:02,610
helpful to them after the fact and and

1656
01:20:06,110 --> 01:20:04,590
in the meantime do what you can with in

1657
01:20:09,230 --> 01:20:06,120
what you feel safe and comfortable doing

1658
01:20:11,420 --> 01:20:09,240
in that in that environment because if

1659
01:20:12,170 --> 01:20:11,430
there's a power dynamic worried you

1660
01:20:13,730 --> 01:20:12,180
don't have the power

1661
01:20:18,370 --> 01:20:13,740
you know don't put yourself at too much

1662
01:20:20,420 --> 01:20:18,380
risk either as a fellow grad student I

1663
01:20:22,010 --> 01:20:20,430
fortunately haven't had to deal with

1664
01:20:25,370 --> 01:20:22,020
this particular problem at least in a

1665
01:20:28,010 --> 01:20:25,380
major way but the philosophy I've been

1666
01:20:31,190 --> 01:20:28,020
kind of adhering to you is that no one

1667
01:20:35,589 --> 01:20:31,200
in any field is so important that it's

1668
01:20:42,259 --> 01:20:40,160
nobody's that smart and I'll say a lot

1669
01:20:44,569 --> 01:20:42,269
of times we don't have the right

1670
01:20:47,120 --> 01:20:44,579
response on the in the spur of the

1671
01:20:49,939 --> 01:20:47,130
moment sometimes we just really need to

1672
01:20:53,390 --> 01:20:49,949
go back take our time work behind the

1673
01:20:55,040 --> 01:20:53,400
scenes recruit allies and figure out

1674
01:20:56,930 --> 01:20:55,050
what we're gonna how we're gonna you

1675
01:21:01,279 --> 01:20:56,940
know fight the next fight how we're

1676
01:21:03,830 --> 01:21:01,289
gonna use our allies this this network

1677
01:21:06,589 --> 01:21:03,840
that we're trying to form talk to our

1678
01:21:08,660 --> 01:21:06,599
best advantage in the next situation so

1679
01:21:14,299 --> 01:21:08,670
sometimes it's just like retreat so we

1680
01:21:16,430 --> 01:21:14,309
can advance further hello everybody so I

1681
01:21:19,819 --> 01:21:16,440
wanted to bring up something that makes

1682
01:21:21,830 --> 01:21:19,829
me very sad we had intended to release a

1683
01:21:24,080 --> 01:21:21,840
survey this week we were supposed to

1684
01:21:28,310 --> 01:21:24,090
launch it on Sunday I was gonna ask you

1685
01:21:32,390 --> 01:21:28,320
about how so alongside so thank you to

1686
01:21:35,750 --> 01:21:32,400
our sev where's our self our selves i

1687
01:21:37,009 --> 01:21:35,760
dinna Lou who is our astrobiology social

1688
01:21:39,620 --> 01:21:37,019
scientists who does all the cool things

1689
01:21:42,740 --> 01:21:39,630
and gives us numbers he's created a

1690
01:21:45,259 --> 01:21:42,750
fabulous survey which we piloted thank

1691
01:21:46,609 --> 01:21:45,269
you - Mary Wojtek who's been supportive

1692
01:21:48,799 --> 01:21:46,619
of all of this so that we can actually

1693
01:21:51,140 --> 01:21:48,809
get some baseline demographics on our

1694
01:21:53,299 --> 01:21:51,150
community and so that we can find out

1695
01:21:55,399 --> 01:21:53,309
what barriers are out there or you know

1696
01:21:57,740 --> 01:21:55,409
who is you know we can find out what the

1697
01:21:58,250 --> 01:21:57,750
issues are for people in their in their

1698
01:22:00,049 --> 01:21:58,260
careers

1699
01:22:03,290 --> 01:22:00,059
however bureaucracy has gotten in the

1700
01:22:06,290 --> 01:22:03,300
way but in the next six to nine months

1701
01:22:08,060 --> 01:22:06,300
we hope to get this survey out we we

1702
01:22:10,580 --> 01:22:08,070
thought we'd gotten through everything

1703
01:22:12,620 --> 01:22:10,590
but there was one more to get through so

1704
01:22:14,120 --> 01:22:12,630
I'm really hoping when we release it

1705
01:22:16,939 --> 01:22:14,130
we'll try and blast it out if anybody

1706
01:22:18,770 --> 01:22:16,949
has any ideas of places to blast it and

1707
01:22:20,779 --> 01:22:18,780
then when you do get it please make sure

1708
01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:20,789
that all of your colleagues those who

1709
01:22:25,220 --> 01:22:22,650
have continued in the field and those

1710
01:22:28,250 --> 01:22:25,230
who left please make sure that they get

1711
01:22:30,020 --> 01:22:28,260
their hands on this so that we can hear

1712
01:22:31,399 --> 01:22:30,030
you know the the good things and the bad

1713
01:22:33,049 --> 01:22:31,409
things and we know there's going to be a

1714
01:22:34,520 --> 01:22:33,059
lot of votes but we we have to start

1715
01:22:36,979 --> 01:22:34,530
somewhere and we don't have the numbers

1716
01:22:38,359 --> 01:22:36,989
to start out with this will be you know

1717
01:22:39,229 --> 01:22:38,369
this will be T I think really helpful

1718
01:22:41,120 --> 01:22:39,239
going forward

1719
01:22:44,330 --> 01:22:41,130
can I bring up one question one quick

1720
01:22:45,490 --> 01:22:44,340
question and it's for Sean as as a

1721
01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:45,500
really good father

1722
01:22:49,410 --> 01:22:46,690
who

1723
01:22:51,750 --> 01:22:49,420
has turned down going to conferences if

1724
01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:51,760
you you know if your wife wasn't

1725
01:22:56,250 --> 01:22:53,530
available to take you know you both

1726
01:23:01,740 --> 01:22:56,260
share your both parents has this

1727
01:23:04,709 --> 01:23:01,750
impacted your career I I don't know to

1728
01:23:06,120 --> 01:23:04,719
be honest I mean I there are definitely

1729
01:23:09,570 --> 01:23:06,130
times I've turned down opportunities

1730
01:23:11,459 --> 01:23:09,580
because my wife has to travel and and I

1731
01:23:12,930 --> 01:23:11,469
this I don't I'm not saying this because

1732
01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:12,940
I'm up in this room in this particular

1733
01:23:18,570 --> 01:23:14,770
space like I say this privately like I

1734
01:23:19,650 --> 01:23:18,580
have a more fun job but it's very clear

1735
01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:19,660
to me that my wife has the most

1736
01:23:23,250 --> 01:23:21,610
important job of the two of us so you

1737
01:23:26,040 --> 01:23:23,260
know if she's traveling or aren't

1738
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:26,050
traveling like I will always make space

1739
01:23:28,500 --> 01:23:27,010
for her because I think what she's doing

1740
01:23:31,229 --> 01:23:28,510
is way more when she's working on

1741
01:23:35,490 --> 01:23:31,239
getting better voter turnout in college

1742
01:23:39,390 --> 01:23:35,500
campuses across the country so in some

1743
01:23:41,430 --> 01:23:39,400
sense I don't care because even if it is

1744
01:23:43,500 --> 01:23:41,440
impacting my career a I've got a lot of

1745
01:23:44,939 --> 01:23:43,510
other privilege I can lean on right and

1746
01:23:47,580 --> 01:23:44,949
this is this is the other thing that

1747
01:23:49,950 --> 01:23:47,590
those you with privilege can do is use

1748
01:23:52,920 --> 01:23:49,960
it not just in the workplace but at home

1749
01:23:55,920 --> 01:23:52,930
okay right like if I can use my

1750
01:23:58,950 --> 01:23:55,930
privilege in the workplace to get by not

1751
01:24:00,270 --> 01:23:58,960
making that trip and and it lets my wife

1752
01:24:04,080 --> 01:24:00,280
make the trip that she might need to

1753
01:24:07,140 --> 01:24:04,090
make I'm gonna do that so I don't know

1754
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:07,150
but I don't care if it did I would just

1755
01:24:11,310 --> 01:24:09,010
like to point out that you know Sean is

1756
01:24:12,840 --> 01:24:11,320
very comfortable in his masculinity

1757
01:24:15,990 --> 01:24:12,850
because he agreed to join the red

1758
01:24:20,790 --> 01:24:16,000
lipstick panel which we have here so

1759
01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:20,800
props to you for that and I would be

1760
01:24:26,610 --> 01:24:23,890
remiss not to thank my own husband who's

1761
01:24:28,200 --> 01:24:26,620
here with our baby I would not be

1762
01:24:30,780 --> 01:24:28,210
standing here right now if he had not

1763
01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:30,790
agreed to make this trip with me and

1764
01:24:36,410 --> 01:24:34,090
help me watch Eleanor this week so thank

1765
01:24:40,189 --> 01:24:36,420
you so much Keith I love you so much

1766
01:24:44,360 --> 01:24:40,199
[Applause]

1767
01:24:47,970 --> 01:24:44,370
come on forward ask your question hi

1768
01:24:50,670 --> 01:24:47,980
Elyse Patricia I did my PhD in Lyon

1769
01:24:54,510 --> 01:24:50,680
Falls and I'm currently a postdoc at RPI

1770
01:24:57,689 --> 01:24:54,520
in Troy New York first thank you very

1771
01:25:00,189 --> 01:24:57,699
much for doing that that's something I

1772
01:25:02,919 --> 01:25:00,199
had a glimpse of that when I was a girl

1773
01:25:05,439 --> 01:25:02,929
meet last year where there was a plenary

1774
01:25:07,779 --> 01:25:05,449
talk about inclusivity and gender

1775
01:25:09,189 --> 01:25:07,789
equality and all of the sudden I

1776
01:25:10,959 --> 01:25:09,199
realized that the room changed

1777
01:25:16,810 --> 01:25:10,969
completely in terms of demographics and

1778
01:25:18,910 --> 01:25:16,820
it struck me at that point so I guess

1779
01:25:21,759 --> 01:25:18,920
some of my questions were already

1780
01:25:24,279 --> 01:25:21,769
answered before and the actual point I

1781
01:25:25,899 --> 01:25:24,289
wanted to talk about was the fact that

1782
01:25:29,680 --> 01:25:25,909
when you're a grad student you're very

1783
01:25:32,199 --> 01:25:29,690
weak in your position and when you know

1784
01:25:34,989 --> 01:25:32,209
and so becoming an ally or an advocate

1785
01:25:40,060 --> 01:25:34,999
when you know that someone is behaving a

1786
01:25:42,430 --> 01:25:40,070
certain way it is very confusing first

1787
01:25:45,959 --> 01:25:42,440
because you notice a lot of harassment

1788
01:25:48,339 --> 01:25:45,969
and abuse not only sexual harassment or

1789
01:25:51,129 --> 01:25:48,349
gender inequalities in general but also

1790
01:25:54,669 --> 01:25:51,139
just in the way that there's a hurricane

1791
01:25:57,189 --> 01:25:54,679
research that is not talked about we

1792
01:25:59,649 --> 01:25:57,199
tend to think of our relationships with

1793
01:26:02,140 --> 01:25:59,659
our supervisors are as being very

1794
01:26:04,410 --> 01:26:02,150
horizontal but they are not and you

1795
01:26:07,719 --> 01:26:04,420
realize that generally when is too light

1796
01:26:10,899 --> 01:26:07,729
so yes

1797
01:26:12,969 --> 01:26:10,909
I think my question goes with what was

1798
01:26:15,339 --> 01:26:12,979
asked before is when you notice this

1799
01:26:17,109 --> 01:26:15,349
kind of abusive behaviors what do you do

1800
01:26:20,709 --> 01:26:17,119
when you are in this very weak position

1801
01:26:23,649 --> 01:26:20,719
of being a graduate student at that

1802
01:26:26,709 --> 01:26:23,659
point and should we how how can we start

1803
01:26:29,589 --> 01:26:26,719
the conversation in the community to

1804
01:26:31,629 --> 01:26:29,599
change the actual values we have in the

1805
01:26:35,439 --> 01:26:31,639
characteristic with values for people of

1806
01:26:39,100 --> 01:26:35,449
not being as ready to bargain about

1807
01:26:42,129 --> 01:26:39,110
positions and not being ready to talk

1808
01:26:44,560 --> 01:26:42,139
very loudly about thoughts that we have

1809
01:26:46,239 --> 01:26:44,570
an attack students of other people

1810
01:26:48,189 --> 01:26:46,249
during conferences because we do not

1811
01:26:50,379 --> 01:26:48,199
agree with their supervisors etcetera

1812
01:26:52,350 --> 01:26:50,389
etcetera so how do we change all of that

1813
01:26:56,080 --> 01:26:52,360
so that we be more inclusive to everyone

1814
01:26:58,180 --> 01:26:56,090
and we stop having these high risks of

1815
01:27:00,399 --> 01:26:58,190
mental health issues for graduate

1816
01:27:03,620 --> 01:27:00,409
students that are really more prevalent

1817
01:27:12,439 --> 01:27:03,630
that in other groups of the same ages

1818
01:27:14,060 --> 01:27:12,449
mmm-hmm a big question thank you yeah

1819
01:27:16,040 --> 01:27:14,070
that's a great question and I think that

1820
01:27:18,560 --> 01:27:16,050
goes along with creating this more

1821
01:27:21,410 --> 01:27:18,570
inclusive environment and for all of us

1822
01:27:25,610 --> 01:27:21,420
to now go out and to and especially

1823
01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:25,620
those of us with more you know you know

1824
01:27:33,110 --> 01:27:29,850
privilege er power whatever to really

1825
01:27:35,419 --> 01:27:33,120
take responsibility you know it is it is

1826
01:27:37,490 --> 01:27:35,429
really on our shoulders so I feel it you

1827
01:27:40,250 --> 01:27:37,500
know I need to feel it on my shoulders

1828
01:27:44,990 --> 01:27:40,260
now especially that I need to be really

1829
01:27:48,350 --> 01:27:45,000
keeping an eye out and I think we could

1830
01:27:50,360 --> 01:27:48,360
do a better job encouraging each other

1831
01:27:52,850 --> 01:27:50,370
as faculty and really remembering we're

1832
01:27:55,209 --> 01:27:52,860
not you know once we're tenured we have

1833
01:27:58,970 --> 01:27:55,219
to do an even better job now from now on

1834
01:28:01,820 --> 01:27:58,980
and so that then when the students have

1835
01:28:05,030 --> 01:28:01,830
an issue it's also very important that

1836
01:28:07,640 --> 01:28:05,040
they know who the kind of aspiring

1837
01:28:09,169 --> 01:28:07,650
allies and advocates who have really

1838
01:28:10,729 --> 01:28:09,179
been trying to educate like the people

1839
01:28:13,459 --> 01:28:10,739
in this room who are really you know

1840
01:28:16,729 --> 01:28:13,469
trying to educate themselves and each

1841
01:28:18,890 --> 01:28:16,739
other are because it can be very

1842
01:28:20,990 --> 01:28:18,900
isolating as many of you know in those

1843
01:28:22,700 --> 01:28:21,000
communities where you don't know like

1844
01:28:25,160 --> 01:28:22,710
can I tell this person or is it gonna

1845
01:28:27,260 --> 01:28:25,170
backfire they're just gonna go tell you

1846
01:28:31,160 --> 01:28:27,270
know my supervisor right away or you

1847
01:28:33,770 --> 01:28:31,170
know and so creating those safe kind of

1848
01:28:35,840 --> 01:28:33,780
network spaces so that we we know who a

1849
01:28:38,899 --> 01:28:35,850
safe person to tell who is not just

1850
01:28:41,629 --> 01:28:38,909
gonna go blab you know and get us in

1851
01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:41,639
bigger trouble and so I think it's

1852
01:28:46,820 --> 01:28:43,530
really nice that that's happening right

1853
01:28:48,649 --> 01:28:46,830
here so that you look around and you

1854
01:28:51,110 --> 01:28:48,659
know these are the people that you can

1855
01:28:58,520 --> 01:28:51,120
start to kind of rely on to protect each

1856
01:28:59,689 --> 01:28:58,530
other well I I was just um I was just

1857
01:29:02,209 --> 01:28:59,699
thinking back on some of the challenges

1858
01:29:03,649 --> 01:29:02,219
I have and I guess I took some big risk

1859
01:29:06,620 --> 01:29:03,659
because I was pretty tenacious I just

1860
01:29:17,030 --> 01:29:06,630
threaten lawyers and things got fixed

1861
01:29:19,970 --> 01:29:17,040
I'm not kidding so long long ago I was

1862
01:29:23,810 --> 01:29:19,980
an undergraduate at RPI and at that time

1863
01:29:26,180 --> 01:29:23,820
they did not as far as I know have any

1864
01:29:30,140 --> 01:29:26,190
sort of student or postdoc Committee on

1865
01:29:32,740 --> 01:29:30,150
diversity and inclusion and they as far

1866
01:29:37,480 --> 01:29:32,750
as I they have never invited me back to

1867
01:29:41,210 --> 01:29:37,490
to give a talk but other engineering

1868
01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:41,220
universities have like Caltech so I've

1869
01:29:46,160 --> 01:29:43,290
been to Caltech three times to talk

1870
01:29:49,910 --> 01:29:46,170
about diversity inclusion to bigger and

1871
01:29:51,830 --> 01:29:49,920
bigger bit bigger audiences and one

1872
01:29:56,180 --> 01:29:51,840
thing I found out in my last visit is

1873
01:29:58,730 --> 01:29:56,190
they have a very active graduate student

1874
01:30:01,910 --> 01:29:58,740
and post postdoc group on diversity

1875
01:30:05,210 --> 01:30:01,920
inclusion at Cal Tech and they were

1876
01:30:08,600 --> 01:30:05,220
interested in how to acquire more power

1877
01:30:12,680 --> 01:30:08,610
and one of the ideas that I had is that

1878
01:30:15,280 --> 01:30:12,690
each of them pick a professor from

1879
01:30:17,750 --> 01:30:15,290
somewhere across campus so usually

1880
01:30:20,480 --> 01:30:17,760
someone with 10 years someone who could

1881
01:30:23,390 --> 01:30:20,490
be senior has a lot of privilege because

1882
01:30:25,250 --> 01:30:23,400
there are professors somewhere you can't

1883
01:30:27,770 --> 01:30:25,260
always identify them right away but if

1884
01:30:30,500 --> 01:30:27,780
you're there for long enough you can who

1885
01:30:34,310 --> 01:30:30,510
are interested in becoming allies and

1886
01:30:37,640 --> 01:30:34,320
advocates and bring those people into

1887
01:30:41,900 --> 01:30:37,650
the group and show them or teach them

1888
01:30:43,670 --> 01:30:41,910
what they need to do to help and they

1889
01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:43,680
have privilege they don't necessarily

1890
01:30:50,240 --> 01:30:47,010
know what to do with it or how to help

1891
01:30:53,500 --> 01:30:50,250
but the the graduate students know

1892
01:30:55,730 --> 01:30:53,510
exactly what they need to do to help so

1893
01:30:59,510 --> 01:30:55,740
combining or getting these people

1894
01:31:02,420 --> 01:30:59,520
together the the senior full professors

1895
01:31:05,690 --> 01:31:02,430
you know with tenure who have privilege

1896
01:31:07,790 --> 01:31:05,700
but want to do better and the graduate

1897
01:31:09,590 --> 01:31:07,800
students who know how to make them

1898
01:31:11,120 --> 01:31:09,600
better getting those two groups of

1899
01:31:14,390 --> 01:31:11,130
people together seem to be a really

1900
01:31:17,060 --> 01:31:14,400
powerful combination so try doing that

1901
01:31:22,939 --> 01:31:19,100
okay let's make these the last three

1902
01:31:24,439 --> 01:31:22,949
questions for the evening hi i'm

1903
01:31:26,689 --> 01:31:24,449
annaliese i'm from the university of

1904
01:31:28,280 --> 01:31:26,699
victoria and this is kind of an inquest

1905
01:31:31,270 --> 01:31:28,290
another question on the inclusivity

1906
01:31:35,000 --> 01:31:31,280
front so mental health issues

1907
01:31:39,709 --> 01:31:35,010
disproportionately affect lgbtq+ and

1908
01:31:41,359 --> 01:31:39,719
minority groups and their general the

1909
01:31:44,290 --> 01:31:41,369
mental health resources on university

1910
01:31:46,910 --> 01:31:44,300
campuses for both students and staff are

1911
01:31:50,240 --> 01:31:46,920
generally considered to be fairly

1912
01:31:51,709 --> 01:31:50,250
useless what do you think the best way

1913
01:31:54,589 --> 01:31:51,719
we can leverage our positions as

1914
01:32:01,450 --> 01:31:54,599
students are as faculty to increase

1915
01:32:07,339 --> 01:32:05,419
okay first off um and this is more of a

1916
01:32:08,780 --> 01:32:07,349
general thing and eventually could turn

1917
01:32:10,970 --> 01:32:08,790
into a tangent about unionization

1918
01:32:12,319 --> 01:32:10,980
everything but I know something that

1919
01:32:14,180 --> 01:32:12,329
would help me a lot because I have

1920
01:32:17,109 --> 01:32:14,190
similar issues that I basically had to

1921
01:32:19,910 --> 01:32:17,119
go off-campus for mental healthcare for

1922
01:32:21,740 --> 01:32:19,920
counseling and it's not covered by mine

1923
01:32:28,459 --> 01:32:21,750
the graduate student insurance as a

1924
01:32:30,950 --> 01:32:28,469
result is increasing what is covered by

1925
01:32:35,330 --> 01:32:30,960
the university health plan whatever form

1926
01:32:37,729 --> 01:32:35,340
that is to actually encompass oh the

1927
01:32:39,859 --> 01:32:37,739
much wider swath of the mental health

1928
01:32:41,600 --> 01:32:39,869
professional community then you know

1929
01:32:49,300 --> 01:32:41,610
whatever a little bit you can get on

1930
01:32:52,069 --> 01:32:49,310
campus well for a faculty we can just

1931
01:32:53,899 --> 01:32:52,079
either attend our Faculty Senate

1932
01:32:56,030 --> 01:32:53,909
meetings and make a fuss which all of us

1933
01:32:58,399 --> 01:32:56,040
have the ability to do or just write our

1934
01:33:01,100 --> 01:32:58,409
president lots of emails which is what I

1935
01:33:03,290 --> 01:33:01,110
did and it actually it's amazing how

1936
01:33:06,709 --> 01:33:03,300
quickly they can just change things

1937
01:33:10,189 --> 01:33:06,719
overnight we had a limit on the number

1938
01:33:12,560 --> 01:33:10,199
of mental health visits per I think it

1939
01:33:14,450 --> 01:33:12,570
was per their entire graduate program

1940
01:33:19,669 --> 01:33:14,460
and they just did away with that we had

1941
01:33:21,379 --> 01:33:19,679
a horrible event tragedy happen and you

1942
01:33:25,580 --> 01:33:21,389
know enough emails to the president and

1943
01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:25,590
bam it's changed and so um we can all

1944
01:33:28,850 --> 01:33:27,690
speak out like that especially those of

1945
01:33:31,910 --> 01:33:28,860
us with you know

1946
01:33:33,650 --> 01:33:31,920
the faculty and I would agree with that

1947
01:33:35,270 --> 01:33:33,660
and I would also say like and just to

1948
01:33:38,270 --> 01:33:35,280
model Georgia Tech which I think has

1949
01:33:40,940 --> 01:33:38,280
done some great things also looking at

1950
01:33:42,410 --> 01:33:40,950
you know really extending things like

1951
01:33:44,180 --> 01:33:42,420
employees assistant programs that are

1952
01:33:46,520 --> 01:33:44,190
access to the faculty extending that to

1953
01:33:47,810 --> 01:33:46,530
your postdocs like pushing to extend

1954
01:33:50,750 --> 01:33:47,820
that to your postdocs and to your

1955
01:33:53,030 --> 01:33:50,760
graduate students and maybe even some

1956
01:33:54,770 --> 01:33:53,040
limited access for undergrads to so they

1957
01:33:56,720 --> 01:33:54,780
have that resource to go out and find a

1958
01:33:58,610 --> 01:33:56,730
counselor not necessarily the on-campus

1959
01:34:00,710 --> 01:33:58,620
counselors which yes usually tend to be

1960
01:34:02,570 --> 01:34:00,720
useless but they can go out and use

1961
01:34:05,240 --> 01:34:02,580
their medical benefits to go on find a

1962
01:34:07,280 --> 01:34:05,250
counselor and get a few free sessions to

1963
01:34:08,570 --> 01:34:07,290
help with the crisis and then kind of

1964
01:34:10,670 --> 01:34:08,580
choose their care for them on there so I

1965
01:34:12,260 --> 01:34:10,680
that that's been a great benefit at

1966
01:34:14,060 --> 01:34:12,270
Georgia Tech was that it was extended to

1967
01:34:15,920 --> 01:34:14,070
this to the postdocs and the grad

1968
01:34:19,460 --> 01:34:15,930
students and I think that's a good model

1969
01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:19,470
that other universities could follow and

1970
01:34:23,720 --> 01:34:22,170
the the thing on the more local and

1971
01:34:26,810 --> 01:34:23,730
immediate level as a mentor or as a

1972
01:34:28,670 --> 01:34:26,820
manager is we need to stop stigmatizing

1973
01:34:30,470 --> 01:34:28,680
mental health and and start appreciating

1974
01:34:33,650 --> 01:34:30,480
it as something that is real that is

1975
01:34:36,170 --> 01:34:33,660
especially a big problem in our field

1976
01:34:37,910 --> 01:34:36,180
and that it's not-it's no different from

1977
01:34:40,220 --> 01:34:37,920
being sick and you need to make space

1978
01:34:42,890 --> 01:34:40,230
for it in your departments in your

1979
01:34:44,480 --> 01:34:42,900
research groups you just you need and we

1980
01:34:45,920 --> 01:34:44,490
need to reduce the mental the overall

1981
01:34:47,630 --> 01:34:45,930
stress that's leading to that in the

1982
01:34:50,480 --> 01:34:47,640
first place as well where we can like

1983
01:34:53,270 --> 01:34:50,490
slack is a great tool but it also leads

1984
01:34:56,060 --> 01:34:53,280
to a lot of after hours and we can work

1985
01:34:57,410 --> 01:34:56,070
and it can cause additional stress as

1986
01:35:00,650 --> 01:34:57,420
well so that we just need to be mindful

1987
01:35:02,600 --> 01:35:00,660
at this stuff I'll say of someone who's

1988
01:35:06,650 --> 01:35:02,610
now been sober for almost three years

1989
01:35:09,560 --> 01:35:06,660
that that alcohol is a big problem here

1990
01:35:13,430 --> 01:35:09,570
too and don't and and so if we can

1991
01:35:15,800 --> 01:35:13,440
promote kind of alternatives to alcohol

1992
01:35:17,660 --> 01:35:15,810
those of us that previously or now are

1993
01:35:21,320 --> 01:35:17,670
struggling with that can it's a lot

1994
01:35:27,890 --> 01:35:21,330
easier so those of us who are on anxiety

1995
01:35:30,380 --> 01:35:27,900
meds and can't drink okay next question

1996
01:35:31,310 --> 01:35:30,390
hi I'm thanks for the spend it would be

1997
01:35:33,590 --> 01:35:31,320
really great

1998
01:35:35,690 --> 01:35:33,600
I'm Matilda Newton from University of

1999
01:35:37,660 --> 01:35:35,700
Colorado and I wondered if you could

2000
01:35:39,430 --> 01:35:37,670
address the

2001
01:35:41,440 --> 01:35:39,440
that most of our professional and

2002
01:35:43,930 --> 01:35:41,450
scientific environments are designed for

2003
01:35:48,010 --> 01:35:43,940
men I'm freezing

2004
01:35:49,780 --> 01:35:48,020
I've been freezing alright and every day

2005
01:35:53,440 --> 01:35:49,790
for the four summers that I have lived

2006
01:35:56,700 --> 01:35:53,450
in this country my lab coats are boxy

2007
01:35:59,560 --> 01:35:56,710
and the arms are too long my pipette

2008
01:36:02,620 --> 01:35:59,570
plunges are too high for my tiny lady

2009
01:36:04,390 --> 01:36:02,630
hands and might because of a too large

2010
01:36:06,940 --> 01:36:04,400
for me to hold with one hand where my

2011
01:36:10,090 --> 01:36:06,950
male colleagues can do so easily and

2012
01:36:13,120 --> 01:36:10,100
there's so many things that we consider

2013
01:36:15,100 --> 01:36:13,130
the default in these settings and

2014
01:36:16,750 --> 01:36:15,110
actually there they're not they

2015
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:16,760
shouldn't be default and then not

2016
01:36:21,910 --> 01:36:19,730
they're not suited for everyone equally

2017
01:36:24,820 --> 01:36:21,920
can you talk to it yeah I think the

2018
01:36:26,320 --> 01:36:24,830
safety is also a huge issue related to

2019
01:36:28,180 --> 01:36:26,330
that and a study just came out about

2020
01:36:30,910 --> 01:36:28,190
that and safety in the workplace for

2021
01:36:33,970 --> 01:36:30,920
women and and how women are not included

2022
01:36:37,300 --> 01:36:33,980
in these studies for safety so I have a

2023
01:36:40,420 --> 01:36:37,310
lot of feelings about this topic because

2024
01:36:43,000 --> 01:36:40,430
you know while some of it hasn't changed

2025
01:36:45,040 --> 01:36:43,010
turns out completely overall overhauling

2026
01:36:47,290 --> 01:36:45,050
your own hormonal makeup causes a lot of

2027
01:36:49,240 --> 01:36:47,300
stuff to be different than it used to be

2028
01:36:50,830 --> 01:36:49,250
and yeah all of a sudden why is the room

2029
01:36:51,490 --> 01:36:50,840
so much colder than it used to be it's

2030
01:36:53,650 --> 01:36:51,500
like oh okay

2031
01:36:59,560 --> 01:36:53,660
well my skin is literally thinner now so

2032
01:37:01,510 --> 01:36:59,570
now I lose heat more easily and I think

2033
01:37:03,670 --> 01:37:01,520
a lot of it is just one of those things

2034
01:37:06,820 --> 01:37:03,680
where you really have to hammer it on

2035
01:37:08,500 --> 01:37:06,830
the powers-that-be repeatedly until it

2036
01:37:11,890 --> 01:37:08,510
gets into their head that it's a real

2037
01:37:14,620 --> 01:37:11,900
thing because since they literally can't

2038
01:37:18,550 --> 01:37:14,630
physically experience it it's out of

2039
01:37:35,050 --> 01:37:18,560
sight out of mind so that has been my

2040
01:37:41,130 --> 01:37:35,060
approach so far anyways it's still

2041
01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:43,720
there's actually a study that just came

2042
01:37:46,840 --> 01:37:45,530
out recently about productivity and room

2043
01:37:48,550 --> 01:37:46,850
temperature between men and women and

2044
01:37:50,140 --> 01:37:48,560
it's kind of funny because when the room

2045
01:37:51,520 --> 01:37:50,150
is colder men are more productive when

2046
01:37:53,980 --> 01:37:51,530
norm is warmer women are more productive

2047
01:37:56,770 --> 01:37:53,990
so there's this dichotomy that we have

2048
01:37:59,350 --> 01:37:56,780
to manage I just wanted more than work

2049
01:38:01,330 --> 01:37:59,360
in separate rooms I want to give a quick

2050
01:38:03,070 --> 01:38:01,340
shout out to Giada Arnie who when she

2051
01:38:06,010 --> 01:38:03,080
got the email from the hotel saying we

2052
01:38:29,710 --> 01:38:06,020
have a cold hotel emailed that study to

2053
01:38:31,840 --> 01:38:29,720
the hotel still I salute you yeah it's

2054
01:38:33,780 --> 01:38:31,850
it's a it's not a coincidence that I'm

2055
01:38:39,100 --> 01:38:33,790
wearing a long-sleeve leather jacket

2056
01:38:41,620 --> 01:38:39,110
conference right so so part of it is

2057
01:38:43,960 --> 01:38:41,630
like why is this type thing you know why

2058
01:38:47,140 --> 01:38:43,970
do we have beakers you can't hold and it

2059
01:38:50,440 --> 01:38:47,150
actually stems from you know academia

2060
01:38:56,470 --> 01:38:50,450
comes from the the monks in the you know

2061
01:38:57,970 --> 01:38:56,480
the the monasteries and you know all the

2062
01:39:03,460 --> 01:38:57,980
things that we think of like from

2063
01:39:07,740 --> 01:39:03,470
beakers that we can hold to schedules

2064
01:39:11,140 --> 01:39:07,750
that new human being contemplating a

2065
01:39:13,900 --> 01:39:11,150
work/life balance would ever keep I'll

2066
01:39:15,790 --> 01:39:13,910
step back to the monks in the monastery

2067
01:39:18,190 --> 01:39:15,800
it's like we're trying to change

2068
01:39:20,020 --> 01:39:18,200
hundreds of years of culture because

2069
01:39:22,750 --> 01:39:20,030
that's what that that's what academia

2070
01:39:24,940 --> 01:39:22,760
grew from and it's even worse than that

2071
01:39:26,530 --> 01:39:24,950
because all of this everything that

2072
01:39:31,120 --> 01:39:26,540
we're talking about all these double

2073
01:39:39,400 --> 01:39:31,130
standards are a result of that we all of

2074
01:39:42,670 --> 01:39:39,410
us have sorry all of us are have been

2075
01:39:45,310 --> 01:39:42,680
living in a system of patriarchy for not

2076
01:39:48,280 --> 01:39:45,320
only our entire lives but for over

2077
01:39:50,230 --> 01:39:48,290
10,000 years like almost everyone you've

2078
01:39:54,370 --> 01:39:50,240
ever known or could ever name

2079
01:39:56,500 --> 01:39:54,380
in history lived under patriarchy and we

2080
01:39:58,840 --> 01:39:56,510
think about why is this the normal and

2081
01:40:00,790 --> 01:39:58,850
it's like it's not always been the

2082
01:40:03,790 --> 01:40:00,800
normal it's just better than normal

2083
01:40:06,310 --> 01:40:03,800
thank you it's just been the normal for

2084
01:40:07,990 --> 01:40:06,320
the past ten thousand years and so we're

2085
01:40:10,360 --> 01:40:08,000
trying to change hundreds of years since

2086
01:40:12,430 --> 01:40:10,370
the monasteries and ten and ten thousand

2087
01:40:16,270 --> 01:40:12,440
years since the patriarchy and no wonder

2088
01:40:19,900 --> 01:40:16,280
it's not easy but I I would say just to

2089
01:40:23,200 --> 01:40:19,910
end on a note of optimism I have been in

2090
01:40:25,270 --> 01:40:23,210
science in astronomy for not hundreds of

2091
01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:25,280
years and not ten thousand years but for

2092
01:40:30,490 --> 01:40:28,010
for multiple decades and all I can say

2093
01:40:32,680 --> 01:40:30,500
is it's getting better it's it's so

2094
01:40:35,320 --> 01:40:32,690
significantly better we have so much

2095
01:40:36,490 --> 01:40:35,330
work still to do but it does improve and

2096
01:40:44,050 --> 01:40:36,500
that's the kind of thing that keeps me

2097
01:40:45,940 --> 01:40:44,060
going we got this hi my name is Georgia

2098
01:40:49,630 --> 01:40:45,950
I'm from the University of New South

2099
01:40:52,570 --> 01:40:49,640
Wales in Australia and so the GSA the

2100
01:40:54,790 --> 01:40:52,580
Geological Society of Australia has been

2101
01:40:57,430 --> 01:40:54,800
given students at universities for the

2102
01:40:59,740 --> 01:40:57,440
past few years money and support to run

2103
01:41:02,470 --> 01:40:59,750
a student on Geoscience or a science

2104
01:41:04,480 --> 01:41:02,480
conference and I'm part of the

2105
01:41:06,760 --> 01:41:04,490
comedian's so it's body back there and

2106
01:41:08,380 --> 01:41:06,770
what we really wanted to do this year

2107
01:41:12,460 --> 01:41:08,390
with this conference was try to make it

2108
01:41:14,500 --> 01:41:12,470
as inclusive as we could and so back at

2109
01:41:17,260 --> 01:41:14,510
uni we've gone through all the IDI

2110
01:41:19,270 --> 01:41:17,270
people on campus to talk to them about

2111
01:41:21,400 --> 01:41:19,280
it but since we're here at the

2112
01:41:24,220 --> 01:41:21,410
conference we thought we'd ask the panel

2113
01:41:26,200 --> 01:41:24,230
what your experience have you what your

2114
01:41:28,150 --> 01:41:26,210
experience is with inclusivity our

2115
01:41:30,160 --> 01:41:28,160
conference has been like what's made it

2116
01:41:32,800 --> 01:41:30,170
a good experience what's made it a bad

2117
01:41:35,110 --> 01:41:32,810
experience and also students everyone

2118
01:41:37,000 --> 01:41:35,120
who's a student here specifically like

2119
01:41:38,680 --> 01:41:37,010
what's made it easier for you to go to

2120
01:41:40,150 --> 01:41:38,690
conferences and what's made it harder

2121
01:41:46,359 --> 01:41:40,160
for you because it is a student

2122
01:41:54,609 --> 01:41:52,629
I just want to give a kind of a shout

2123
01:41:57,370 --> 01:41:54,619
out to a resource for this which is the

2124
01:42:00,310 --> 01:41:57,380
500 women scientist guide to inclusive

2125
01:42:03,100 --> 01:42:00,320
conferences and that has just like tons

2126
01:42:06,729 --> 01:42:03,110
of resources about there's so many

2127
01:42:09,189 --> 01:42:06,739
things right that we can do and so check

2128
01:42:11,950 --> 01:42:09,199
that out if just Google 500 women's

2129
01:42:14,080 --> 01:42:11,960
science inclusive conference and and

2130
01:42:15,970 --> 01:42:14,090
then also in there they have leaked but

2131
01:42:19,540 --> 01:42:15,980
a bunch of more resources about like

2132
01:42:21,250 --> 01:42:19,550
accessibility and and the pronouns and

2133
01:42:23,439 --> 01:42:21,260
all these different things you can you

2134
01:42:28,959 --> 01:42:23,449
can do and things that I never thought

2135
01:42:30,220 --> 01:42:28,969
of that yeah I would just say like you

2136
01:42:31,750 --> 01:42:30,230
know you have an opportunity since

2137
01:42:33,850 --> 01:42:31,760
you're running student conscience to set

2138
01:42:35,560 --> 01:42:33,860
the standard and expectation and set

2139
01:42:37,689 --> 01:42:35,570
your policies for what is acceptable and

2140
01:42:39,070 --> 01:42:37,699
what it's not to create a safe space for

2141
01:42:40,870 --> 01:42:39,080
people to feel comfortable coming to the

2142
01:42:42,820 --> 01:42:40,880
meeting and be upfront and be direct

2143
01:42:44,770 --> 01:42:42,830
right on the website right as people

2144
01:42:47,379 --> 01:42:44,780
register that this is our policy and

2145
01:42:49,120 --> 01:42:47,389
those that cannot follow that or use it

2146
01:42:52,930 --> 01:42:49,130
will be asked to leave you know just to

2147
01:42:56,140 --> 01:42:52,940
set your standards now and one more

2148
01:42:59,859 --> 01:42:56,150
thing is it's easy to kind of say have a

2149
01:43:01,750 --> 01:42:59,869
code of conduct right and then you see

2150
01:43:05,620 --> 01:43:01,760
something say something but like to whom

2151
01:43:08,589 --> 01:43:05,630
and will those people be trustworthy and

2152
01:43:10,600 --> 01:43:08,599
what evidence is there what trainings

2153
01:43:11,919 --> 01:43:10,610
have they had like you know you know

2154
01:43:13,600 --> 01:43:11,929
you're not gonna want to go tell

2155
01:43:15,490 --> 01:43:13,610
somebody who you don't trust and so you

2156
01:43:18,250 --> 01:43:15,500
really need to establish as part of the

2157
01:43:19,479 --> 01:43:18,260
inclusivity you know make sure if you're

2158
01:43:22,359 --> 01:43:19,489
gonna have a code of conduct which

2159
01:43:24,520 --> 01:43:22,369
hopefully do then you also need to put

2160
01:43:26,229 --> 01:43:24,530
the time in to find those people and

2161
01:43:28,510 --> 01:43:26,239
have them wear some kind of button or

2162
01:43:30,760 --> 01:43:28,520
something and have them be trained and

2163
01:43:32,379 --> 01:43:30,770
trustworthy and then have their like

2164
01:43:34,930 --> 01:43:32,389
what are you gonna do if there is an

2165
01:43:36,580 --> 01:43:34,940
incident than those you know so it's a

2166
01:43:39,640 --> 01:43:36,590
lot organizing is an inclusive

2167
01:43:53,370 --> 01:43:39,650
conferences a lot more at work right but

2168
01:43:59,590 --> 01:43:57,310
so one of the things that's made that I

2169
01:44:03,010 --> 01:43:59,600
found has made going to conferences

2170
01:44:05,830 --> 01:44:03,020
easier for me is that we don't have all

2171
01:44:10,030 --> 01:44:05,840
male panels especially when they're

2172
01:44:12,540 --> 01:44:10,040
talking about women's issues Jones our

2173
01:44:15,129 --> 01:44:12,550
token male today

2174
01:44:17,669 --> 01:44:15,139
the Committee on the status of women in

2175
01:44:21,430 --> 01:44:17,679
astronomy a number of not that long ago

2176
01:44:23,260 --> 01:44:21,440
decided that they would publish a list

2177
01:44:25,870 --> 01:44:23,270
of conferences astronomy conferences

2178
01:44:30,490 --> 01:44:25,880
from across the world and we would

2179
01:44:33,310 --> 01:44:30,500
identify what number of plenary speakers

2180
01:44:34,899 --> 01:44:33,320
were men and women so it snowed we

2181
01:44:37,810 --> 01:44:34,909
weren't pointing fingers we were just

2182
01:44:40,870 --> 01:44:37,820
publishing their numbers and it was

2183
01:44:44,109 --> 01:44:40,880
amazing how much attention that list got

2184
01:44:46,030 --> 01:44:44,119
when a panel or a conference came up

2185
01:44:48,910 --> 01:44:46,040
where that all of the the plenary

2186
01:44:51,450 --> 01:44:48,920
speakers were men and just drawing

2187
01:44:53,950 --> 01:44:51,460
attention to just something like that

2188
01:44:56,109 --> 01:44:53,960
seem to make a big difference and it's

2189
01:44:58,149 --> 01:44:56,119
like we're not blaming you

2190
01:45:01,060 --> 01:44:58,159
I mean you invited the speakers we're

2191
01:45:04,180 --> 01:45:01,070
just publishing a list type thing and

2192
01:45:06,970 --> 01:45:04,190
someone mentioned earlier that a lot of

2193
01:45:10,840 --> 01:45:06,980
our most of our diverse our most diverse

2194
01:45:12,520 --> 01:45:10,850
population in science is the youngest so

2195
01:45:15,609 --> 01:45:12,530
a lot of our students are much more

2196
01:45:18,459 --> 01:45:15,619
diverse than our senior faculty so

2197
01:45:20,560 --> 01:45:18,469
another thing that we did is we in this

2198
01:45:22,720 --> 01:45:20,570
was specifically an astronomy we went

2199
01:45:25,330 --> 01:45:22,730
through every astronomy PhD granting

2200
01:45:27,879 --> 01:45:25,340
department in the country and we looked

2201
01:45:29,830 --> 01:45:27,889
at what what was the number of women

2202
01:45:32,290 --> 01:45:29,840
that have tenure and was the number of

2203
01:45:35,229 --> 01:45:32,300
men that had tenure and we just

2204
01:45:38,770 --> 01:45:35,239
published a list and there was nobody

2205
01:45:41,620 --> 01:45:38,780
who was mad at us except the department

2206
01:45:43,899 --> 01:45:41,630
that had zero tenured women and all of

2207
01:45:47,439 --> 01:45:43,909
their their tenured faculty were were

2208
01:45:49,540 --> 01:45:47,449
men and but it is said it's not our

2209
01:45:51,729 --> 01:45:49,550
fault you haven't hired anyone and you

2210
01:45:54,189 --> 01:45:51,739
know who's tenured who's a woman we're

2211
01:45:56,020 --> 01:45:54,199
just publishing a list and somehow being

2212
01:45:57,760 --> 01:45:56,030
confronted with their own numbers and

2213
01:45:59,800 --> 01:45:57,770
everyone else you know all the other

2214
01:46:01,479 --> 01:45:59,810
departments that we're not doing great

2215
01:46:01,910 --> 01:46:01,489
but we're at least doing better than

2216
01:46:05,210 --> 01:46:01,920
they

2217
01:46:08,520 --> 01:46:05,220
made them sit up and take notice so

2218
01:46:11,010 --> 01:46:08,530
sometimes things as I said earlier

2219
01:46:14,910 --> 01:46:11,020
things do get better but it takes way

2220
01:46:17,580 --> 01:46:14,920
too much time and I think that's a good

2221
01:46:21,000 --> 01:46:17,590
segue to remind everyone of the QR code

2222
01:46:23,280 --> 01:46:21,010
so and feel free to steal that idea of

2223
01:46:24,840 --> 01:46:23,290
sexually rose Jones who's not able to be

2224
01:46:26,100 --> 01:46:24,850
here said why don't you put up a QR code

2225
01:46:27,360 --> 01:46:26,110
or the survey and you can ask people

2226
01:46:29,550 --> 01:46:27,370
what they want to do with this workshop

2227
01:46:33,090 --> 01:46:29,560
it looks like that's a very good idea so

2228
01:46:35,610 --> 01:46:33,100
you know ask your community what what do

2229
01:46:38,370 --> 01:46:35,620
you need at a conference what have you

2230
01:46:39,960 --> 01:46:38,380
not gotten at a conference that you

2231
01:46:41,370 --> 01:46:39,970
would like to see and I think that

2232
01:46:46,970 --> 01:46:41,380
that's a very powerful tools you just

2233
01:46:50,990 --> 01:46:46,980
listen and you know ask questions so oh

2234
01:46:55,260 --> 01:46:51,000
yes of course you can say something

2235
01:46:57,210 --> 01:46:55,270
you're married I just want to thank you

2236
01:47:00,030 --> 01:46:57,220
for having Sean

2237
01:47:01,440 --> 01:47:00,040
even with his lipstick on the panel it's

2238
01:47:04,620 --> 01:47:01,450
divine

2239
01:47:06,660 --> 01:47:04,630
having been involved and on panels since

2240
01:47:10,890 --> 01:47:06,670
you know for the past 30 years to talk

2241
01:47:12,480 --> 01:47:10,900
about diversity and inclusiveness I

2242
01:47:15,330 --> 01:47:12,490
actually get very irritated when it's

2243
01:47:17,550 --> 01:47:15,340
all women and I think having a panel of

2244
01:47:18,540 --> 01:47:17,560
all women with only women in the

2245
01:47:20,790 --> 01:47:18,550
audience

2246
01:47:22,830 --> 01:47:20,800
it doesn't isn't inclusive in fact it

2247
01:47:24,570 --> 01:47:22,840
actually sets you apart in a way that I

2248
01:47:26,520 --> 01:47:24,580
doesn't I think

2249
01:47:29,420 --> 01:47:26,530
doesn't help the the issue and so I want

2250
01:47:31,430 --> 01:47:29,430
to thank all the men yeah it showed up

2251
01:47:33,490 --> 01:47:31,440
thank you white men

2252
01:47:35,710 --> 01:47:33,500
[Applause]

2253
01:47:37,420 --> 01:47:35,720
I have done this several times with a GU

2254
01:47:41,050 --> 01:47:37,430
and there have been two men in the

2255
01:47:43,150 --> 01:47:41,060
audience and so well I'm out of all of

2256
01:47:45,070 --> 01:47:43,160
you this meeting is so amazing and then

2257
01:47:47,740 --> 01:47:45,080
there's more women presenting and

2258
01:47:52,860 --> 01:47:47,750
actually more men listening it's really

2259
01:47:58,570 --> 01:47:56,710
well this has been an amazing discussion

2260
01:48:00,730 --> 01:47:58,580
and again I want to thank all of you for

2261
01:48:03,100 --> 01:48:00,740
sticking it out to the end and asking so

2262
01:48:05,010 --> 01:48:03,110
many amazing questions and getting this

2263
01:48:08,410 --> 01:48:05,020
dialogue going I want to thank our

2264
01:48:11,470 --> 01:48:08,420
panelists one more time you guys are so

2265
01:48:12,850 --> 01:48:11,480
good especially Sean and Joan because

2266
01:48:15,220 --> 01:48:12,860
neither of them had ever met me in

2267
01:48:17,830 --> 01:48:15,230
person and for all they knew I was a

2268
01:48:21,580 --> 01:48:17,840
complete psychopath which could be true

2269
01:48:23,470 --> 01:48:21,590
but thank you thank all of you for for

2270
01:48:27,340 --> 01:48:23,480
being here and for participating in this

2271
01:48:29,680 --> 01:48:27,350
discussion and one more time there's the

2272
01:48:33,880 --> 01:48:29,690
code so please you know give us your

2273
01:48:35,950 --> 01:48:33,890
thoughts and I want to thank Melissa and

2274
01:48:38,320 --> 01:48:35,960
Mary for being so supportive of this

2275
01:48:39,790 --> 01:48:38,330
event and you know for taking this idea

2276
01:48:41,820 --> 01:48:39,800
and letting me run with it